The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

MPs in the South East region[edit] Affiliation Members Conservative Party 74 Labour Party 4 Liberal Democrats 3 Green Party 1 Independent 1 Speaker 1 Total 84 MP Constituency Party In constituency since MPs in the South West region[edit] Affiliation Members Conservative Party 36 Liberal Democrats 15 Labour Party 4 Total 55 MP Constituency Party In constituency sin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_for_constituencies_in_England_2010%E2%80%9315

oops, cut & paste didn't work too well there

So, south east & south west 139 mp's

Conservative 110

Labour 8

Lib dem 18

I think I'm right in saying these areas include all the cities we mentioned.

Yeah, we're all in it together

Edited May 1, 2015 by LJS

[russycarps]

I'm not certain but I think London might have more than 8 labour mps, or is that not in the south?

Edited May 1, 2015 by russycarps

[LJS]

I'm not certain but I think London might have more than 8 labour mps, or is that not in the south?

It's not included in my figures

[russycarps]

How convenient to exclude a southern region that doesn't fit your narrative...

The rural/urban split is not denied by anyone.....apart from you it seems.

Edited May 1, 2015 by russycarps

[LJS]

How convenient to exclude a southern region that doesn't fit your narrative...

The rural/urban split is not denied by anyone.....apart from you it seems.

apart from the north east, the north west & yorkshire, London is the only part of Engalnd with more Labour than tory MP's.

So i missed out london -

Affiliation Members Labour Party 38 Conservative Party 28 Liberal Democrats 7 Total 73

But I also missed out the East of England

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 52 Liberal Democrats 4 Labour Party 2 Total 58

The east midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 30 Labour Party 16 Total 46

The west Midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 33 Labour Party 24 Liberal Democrats 2 Total 59

We are a divided country

The Labour part suffers most because there aren't enough seats in the north for it to win without votes from people in the South who increasingly have different priorities.

The game's over Russy. It's a matter of when, not if

[LondonTom]

apart from the north east, the north west & yorkshire, London is the only part of Engalnd with more Labour than tory MP's.

So basically if you take out the largest population centre, (more than Scotland infact?)

[russycarps]

apart from the north east, the north west & yorkshire, London is the only part of Engalnd with more Labour than tory MP's.

So i missed out london -

Affiliation Members Labour Party 38 Conservative Party 28 Liberal Democrats 7 Total 73

But I also missed out the East of England

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 52 Liberal Democrats 4 Labour Party 2 Total 58

The east midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 30 Labour Party 16 Total 46

The west Midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 33 Labour Party 24 Liberal Democrats 2 Total 59

We are a divided country

The Labour part suffers most because there aren't enough seats in the north for it to win without votes from people in the South who increasingly have different priorities.

The game's over Russy. It's a matter of when, not if

so some parts of the country are labour and some are tory. Mainly split between rural and urban areas.

So what's new?

You seem to want a one party state. That's worked out well for other countries in the past.

Edited May 2, 2015 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

Maybe you guys who are endlessly telling us what is happening in scotland, might like to read this

It's from the Guardian which last time I checked was not pro indy - Oh & just in case it is too strange for you, it involves a politician interacting with real people - not party activists or invited focus groups - you won't find stuff like this on below the line comments in the guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/01/scots-out-in-force-edinburgh-sturgeon-snp-election-labour

No mention of Ed's trip to Scotland, where the party which is desperate to have a deal with Ed had their supporters protesting against Ed, shouting "red tories out".

That says to me that the SNP supporters are dead keen on a deal with the tories, and there;s been you saying it's impossible. Fancy that.

[eFestivals]

Save me the bother Kaos, excluding London, how many Labour vs tories are there in Essex, Sussex, Hampshire, Devon, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Berkshire, Bedfordshire. & whatever other counties I have missed from the South of England,

There are some pretty big Urban areas in these counties & precious few labour MP's

the union is over

What you mean is that you don't accept democracy.

You simply don't accept the right of others within the UK to vote differently to how you'd like them to vote. And you think the way to get a 'better democracy' is to redraw the lines to give you the result you want. It's laughable.

What about those in Scotland who don't want the SNP redrawing the lines to escape the SNP, just as you redraw the lines to escape the tories. Is that allowed, LJS?

Or is re-drawing the lines something that's only allowed to happen to your own rules? Why, yes it is. Devolution within Scotland is a red line to the SNP.

Me me me, and fuck everyone else. It's a tory as it gets.

[eFestivals]

Yes, & Portsmouth, Plymouth,Reading etc.

Reading is pretty tiny as UK cities go.

But it's one of the very few Southern cities with an industrial heritage, and it just about always (perhaps always? I've lived and worked there, but don't know the history perfectly) has o0ne or more Labour MPs.

The south west is very tory/UKIP, btw. You know, like the most remote parts of Scotland are the parts most removed from the central belt's politics.

Who'd have thought it eh? A diversity of political views with a country.

But not the new one party State of Scotlandshire, where no tory has ever breathed, and no tory is allowed representation. Because you say so, and you'll redraw the lines to ensure it can't happen.

[eFestivals]

How convenient to exclude a southern region that doesn't fit your narrative...

The rural/urban split is not denied by anyone.....apart from you it seems.

It's because there's no city/rural split in the new one-party state.

Those snippers have been out murdering all those of different views. It's just not acceptable to have differing political views within any nation state.

[kaosmark2]

No progressive thinking person genuinely wants to abandon half their country to right-wing nutjobs.

[eFestivals]

Nationalist paranoia is out in force again. They can't lose an election, it can only be cheated from them.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

[Comfy Bean]

Nationalist paranoia is out in force again. They can't lose an election, it can only be cheated from them.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

What has happened to the Guardian What a dreadful article. Disappointed you are lapping shit like this up sir.

I promise to report back tomorrow if I see any snipsters hiding in bushes taking photos of vans or pieces of paper.................

[eFestivals]

What has happened to the Guardian What a dreadful article. Disappointed you are lapping shit like this up sir.

I promise to report back tomorrow if I see any snipsters hiding in bushes taking photos of vans or pieces of paper.................

have the police issued that warning? Why, yes they have.

It's news, what's your problem with it?

You have a problem with the reporting of the paranoia, but not the paranoia itself.

Meanwhile, there's a wealth of evidence of snippers hiding in bushes taking photos, and a number of candidates have made complaints about it ... tho I guess as they're not snippers that are complaining they must all be liars, yeah?

Edited May 7, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Murphy ... his expenses scam ...

I know this is old, but it's only just come to my attention that ....

After the tories, the SNP were the next party with the biggest proportion of expenses fiddlers.

It's yet another place where the snipper's myth and claimed justification for voting SNP doesn't match the real facts.

Edited May 7, 2015 by eFestivals

[tolywoly]

Haven't the previous 300-odd pages of this thread already established that there's two realities - real reality, and pro-independence groupthink reality. In the latter every criticism of the SNP is simply evidence of the establishment bias against them, and every story about everyone else is irrefutable proof of their contempt for the Scottish working man.

Comfy's reply above is the default 'non story' response from the Good Nationalist Guidebook.

[viberunner]

Nationalist paranoia is out in force again. They can't lose an election, it can only be cheated from them.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

Debunked propaganda.

Police Scotland have rubbished claims that an official warning was issued because of fears of “threatening behaviour” from SNP supporters at the polls.

A media frenzy was whipped up this morning over allegations that the police and the Electoral Commission were expecting trouble because of an online campaign asking people to watch out for poll irregularities.

“Radical SNP activists could cause chaos at polls” trumpeted the Daily Express while the Daily Record and Daily Mail claimed the police had warned of “threatening behaviour” by SNP supporters who planned to follow ballot boxes to counting centres.

However a police spokesman said yesterday: “We have issued no warnings.”

http://www.thenational.scot/news/police-scotland-deny-unionist-reports-they-warned-of-snp-aggression-at-polls.2731

[eFestivals]

Debunked propaganda.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/police-scotland-deny-unionist-reports-they-warned-of-snp-aggression-at-polls.2731

Hmmmm .... because it's impossible for The National(ist) to be the one printing lies, yeah? The SNP only ever have truth on their side.

I don't know which story is true and I really don't care .... but ....

Haven't the previous 300-odd pages of this thread already established that there's two realities - real reality, and pro-independence groupthink reality. In the latter every criticism of the SNP is simply evidence of the establishment bias against them, and every story about everyone else is irrefutable proof of their contempt for the Scottish working man.

Comfy's reply above is the default 'non story' response from the Good Nationalist Guidebook.

[LJS]

I thought I'd put this here as it is of purely Scottish interest. As it is from behind the Herald's paywall, I have posted it in full & not linked it cos I'm on my phone & I can't be arsed.

This is the man who stood against Murphy. Definitely to the left of Jim (not difficult)

Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothians, has resigned from Labour's shadow cabinet in the Scottish Parliament

In a statement he said that Thursday's election was a "disaster" for the Scottish Labour Party, with their problems "wide ranging and deep".

He said: "Radical solutions are needed and can only be implemented following a full, frank, open and democratic debate led by our loyal and hard working, committed party members - a centralised fix just won't do.

"I want to play a full part in that debate and in rebuilding our party from the grassroots up.

"I feel I can only do so if free rom the constraints of being a member of the Shadow Team. I have therefore today submitted my resignation from the Shadow Cabinet."

"I want to thank the Labour leadership team for the opportunity to serve the party and the movement I love."

He added that he would "redouble" his efforts working on behalf of the Lothian region.

[viberunner]

He added that he would "redouble" his efforts working on behalf of the Lothian region.

My maths are shaky, what's "two times zero" again?

[eFestivals]

I'm thinking the next GE will have significant Labour, LibDem & Tory representation from Scotland in Westminster.

Is Alex playing Dave or is Dave playing Alex? Or, put another way, who has the most power to play against the other?

All Chicken Dave needs to do is to say he respects how Scots have voted, and while he can't give them more money - a majority of the uK voted for austerity, don't forget - he can give them some of their other wants.

Which of course will be some amount of FFA.

It won't be all (because that then has Scotland with nothing to lose by going indie), but it will be enough to expose what the SNP have been wanting and to inflict some of the pain of the SNP's want onto Scotland.

Will the SNP's vote stand up when there's either bigger cuts in public services than the tories would have given you, or with tax rises imposed by the SNP (not that this would happen; they can try to blame cuts on others, they can't blame tax rises they impose on others).

I suspect that'll see around half of the SNP's support drain away and a revival of the other parties.

It ain't all over till the fat small lady sings is screaming.

Edited May 11, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Has anyone read St Nicola's article in the Guardian (or Observer)?

She wades right in, making the SNP = Scotland.

And then she aims at where she can see the biggest crack, and hammers in nthe wedge to try to create the biggest divide.

And that's over the EU, where she (again) demands that to leave the EU each 'nation' of the UK has to vote to leave.

I look forwards to the next indyref, where St Nicola will show she's not a duplicitous manipulative unprincipled popularist by having rules that say each of the 34 regions in Scotland must vote yes for Scottish independence to happen.

[LJS]

Has anyone read St Nicola's article in the Guardian (or Observer)?

She wades right in, making the SNP = Scotland.

And then she aims at where she can see the biggest crack, and hammers in nthe wedge to try to create the biggest divide.

And that's over the EU, where she (again) demands that to leave the EU each 'nation' of the UK has to vote to leave.

I look forwards to the next indyref, where St Nicola will show she's not a duplicitous manipulative unprincipled popularist by having rules that say each of the 34 regions in Scotland must vote yes for Scottish independence to happen.

What a fatuous point.

[eFestivals]

What a fatuous point.

so Nicola 's was too?

If all interested parties have to agree on leaving the EU, why don't all interested parties have to agree to indie in the same way?

Why is a one-vote majority enough for one thing but not for the other?

Why does democracy equal what Nicola says it does when it's working to her advantage but no one else's?

You've obviously given up on democracy for the one party state. FFS.

And you wonder why I laugh at the double standards, the self-interest and not democratic interest, and the dupliciousness.

Get back to me when you and Nicola finds a principle that isn't the me-me-me of Thatcherism.

Edited May 11, 2015 by eFestivals