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I don’t think it is a daft argument. My point is that the amount of discussion about Israel/palestine from people with an internet in politics/or discuss on social media/forums etc is way out of sync compared to priorities of the average person. People do think about social care as it will impact on many of us in the future and many of our families at present.

Is the average person reading a newspaper in 2024? I know when we discussed it in work not a single person bought a newspaper. My parents still do, although I had to guilt trip them out of the torygraph.

I think that’s only telling one side of the story, these referendum can also be used when legislature is out of sync with voters, for example protections for abortion have come from referendum.

I honestly believe the majority of people in this country spend minimal time thinking about Middle East politics. I think social media politics discussion really skews perception. Of course that’s not to say nobody cares about it, but I honestly believe it’s not going to be a key factor when people vote next in a general election. Of course it may influence Muslim/Jewish voters more, but there is a danger in thinking their views on politics are purely formed by their faith. They care about housing, education, cost of living , NHS just like everyone else.

Honestly I think if you ask the average voter about labours green policies you would get a blank look back. The majority are not tuning into political headlines like we are.

I think you’re overestimating how engaged the average voter is. I think of the average person in my work and I can guarantee they probably don’t know it was a pledge, nor do they know it has been watered down.

I think however we run the risk of generalising and treating all Muslims as one bloc. I have spent my life working with Muslim people and again not one has ever mentioned Middle East politics to me , they have mentioned the same concerns as everyone else.

Is he wrong though? You would have to go on the doorsteps to confirm. I have worked community nhs for years and people (all end of the political spectrum) talk politics with me. They talk about housing, concerns for their kids/grandchildren, NHS, education etc in 17 years working nobody has ever mentioned Middle East politics.

The green investment may turn off a a few supporters (although most will accept it to get rid of the Torys) but I don’t think it’s an issue that swing voters are going to care (beyond the concern of it increasing general costs) about. It’s one of those things you need to get into power and get on with

Is it really f**king them? An MP nobody has heard of has been caught, he has been suspended. I have zero sympathy with any labour MP over these issues, they know it’s an incredibly sensitive issue for labour, if they are stupid enough to get caught on camera or audio then that’s on them.

People vote for different reasons, some vote for someone, some vote tactically and some vote for the least worst option. As I said in the situation I highlighted if I had voted Tory in a Tory v BNP 2 candidate race that would have been in no way an endorsement. Nor do I believe people not voting will magically improve candidate quality. I think for the average voter views on Middle East politics will be way down the list under health, education , housing etc. To say voting for him shows you don’t care about his views is simplistic as the alternative is probably Galloway. What is the intellectual benefit of punishing Ali and rewarding Galloway? I agree the people of Rochdale deserve better, but in this situation the system is working against them and we can’t change the system. A different labour candidate will emerge for the general election, but the system means they will have a flawed candidate until then.

I once went to my local council election and there were only 3 candidates Lib Dem, Tory and BNP. I voted Lib Dem but wondered what I would have done if they were not on the ballot. I would have had to vote Tory, no way an endorsement of their politics but that’s the pragmatic decision based on choices on offer. You can talk about spoiling your vote or not voting, but what if everyone does that and the BNP come through on a low turnout. Unfortunately most of us voters don’t make the choices, but have to make the best or least worst choice. From an intellectual perspective it makes little sense to punish Ali and reward Galloway, what are you achieving here? My preference would be to swap candidate but the system doesn’t allow that . However the reality is Ali will vote in parliament almost identically to a generic Labour replacement.

I think again this is quite “political bubble” thinking. Most of the country will pay little attention to a by-election in Rochdale and while Israel/Palestine is a key issue for some people very engaged in politics, it’s a minor issue for those swing voters who determine who win elections. This is the most recent crisis so fresh in our minds, debatable if the biggest and not one I see impacting on a general election. If he is the next PM he will have to deal with way bigger!

That’s the rules at present, rules can change if there is political will. The thing here is this situation could happen to any party. You can lower the risk with effective vetting, but it’s not foolproof. I think in America they allow write in candidates, so maybe there’s a process around this that could work.

I don’t see it as a referendum on Starmer. In an ideal world labour could switch candidate, maybe long term the solution is to allow this, so parties can switch in this situation Just because the labour candidate has messed up, doesn’t mean that Rochdale doesn’t deserve political representation consistent with the views of the consistency. My thought process would probably be to vote Lib Dem if they were competitive. If not I would vote labour (through gritted teeth) knowing they are likely to vote in parliament consistent with my wishes and they would be replaced by the GE.

I think you’re over analysing. If labour succeed in the general election, the narrative won’t be the comparison between 2 elections in Rochdale. Im loathed to read too much into turnout, I would always vote in any election. If it was (similar to Rochdale) a sh*t choice, I would determine the least sh*t. That’s not an endorsement of a candidate, but my belief in the importance of voting. This feels a bit of a political bubble story to me. I don’t think the average swing voter outside Rochdale will care.

If these 3 getting a big vote would be a big vote against Starmer, what would be considered a vote for him? It’s pretty much a no win situation now.

Anthony Hopkins dressed as the Wrexham mascot in a Super Bowl advert. Supporting Wrexham is just more surreal by the day.

When you play teams a couple of leagues higher (particularly away) you need things to go for you. We had a great chance to go 2-0 up and I think that could be a different game. Oh well focus on the league! I don’t have the spelling right but that Smodics looks a good player.

Sheffield wed or Coventry is not a great draw for Maidstone. If Wrexham can get past Blackburn (which I suspect they won’t) then Newcastle is a tasty draw.

Great win for Maidstone, these are the days you dream of as a lower league fan.

I think the argument about what he has won is a bit silly. Look at all the major leagues and it’s rare to see a club outside the top 2 spender’s dominating. He has been great for Liverpool, over however I have found him become more annoying as a neutral.

I get the impression they really tightened the purse strings with Hodgson. I remember him bringing in a load of mid table players.

That was my view, I liked him before he became all moany

I have never got the idea of not punishing fans. The same fans are happy if the owners make risky transfers which result in benefit. You can’t say fans should only benefit.