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Isn’t that partly due to Hamas hiding in areas with women and babies, this isn’t necessarily normal rules of war. To me calling for a ceasefire is a simplistic solution to a complex situation and has I have said previously what British politicians say will make no difference. I also wouldn’t discount that some people (maybe Burnham) may have an eye on a future leadership contest so we need to remember politicians are always playing politics. To me I’m yet to hear a great intellectual argument why Israel should agree to a ceasefire while the hostages haven’t been released. I guess the counter is there goes Hamas negotiation position, but we end up going around in circles.

Labour are the party of opposition there is little they can do now, whatever they do will upset someone. The conservatives will love it if labour tie themselves up over this, so they need to make sure they don’t. So all for a long lasting ceasefire, but that won’t be achieved by statements on social media. What would like follow a ceasefire is a Hamas attack (it’s what terrorists do) , arguments over a proportionate response and we just go round in circles.

I think Starmer has zero influence on things and Sunak a tiny bit more. I think labour are best to say whatever gives them the chance to have some influence should they take power, whatever that may be. Saying that one of my best friends still claims to this day that Corbyn single handedly brought peace to Ireland, so maybe we just need to send Jez over to play peacekeeper.

If I felt Labour politicians calling for a ceasefire would save a single life then I would be calling for them all to make statements. The reality is international diplomacy isn’t done through simple public statements on twitter.

Not for me, but I think some people inadvertently find themselves being sympathetic of Hamas when critical of Israel.

I get the impression calling for a ceasefire is just a sticking plaster, but it’s something that people without influence can ask for and feel like they are making a difference. However you have the ceasefire, Hamas do more bad stuff at a later date and we are back to square one. There is no way of solving the problem, but it can be made better by behind closed door diplomacy, people screaming for a ceasefire on social media won’t make a difference. The sad thing for me is why some get close to defending Hamas. The reality is that Hamas would gladly throw women and kids under the bus when it suits them. I feel we need to separate Hamas and the Palestinian people who are left to take the consequences.

I think it’s really sh*t and I’m glad I live in this county. Despite having leaders like Bojo and Truss at least we can walk the streets and feel relatively safe. I wish Hamas had not killed all those Israeli people and the truth is they care little for any of their own innocent victims. The reality is after what happened the idea that Israel won’t retaliate is unrealistic, so we are already in damage limitation territory. I think talking about Israel being as bad as Hamas or an apartheid state helps nobody. Screaming we want a ceasefire won’t deliver one, so what is the path to making things better. It’s probably secret conversations which we will never hear and don’t know are happening, something that’s hard to debate on here.

What’s indefensible about waiting for evidence? Many on the left have been keen to take this line when it suits, yet mysteriously changed course when it doesn’t. What’s indefensible about admitting when you get things wrong? I think it’s an admirable quality and we all do it. I suspect Corbyn would never retract because the reality is he comes from the position Palestine is always right and Israel always wrong, it will take a more nuanced view to sort out this shitshow if possible.

I don’t think the AP counts anymore!!

It is fine though when you fall victim of misinformation to own it, there are very few people who haven’t at some point. If you claim Israel bombed the hospital, just delete, retract, or say you just don’t know.

I am categorising the left as the Corbyn left rather than centre left like myself, but accept that’s subjective. To me putting a more balanced tweet out doesn’t make up for leaving a false tweet up. With the situation sensitive leaving false information out there is irresponsible, but this is a politician who will never admit he is wrong. When you say “all the politicians “ are you talking about MPs, uk politicians, worldwide? I have heard several of his supporters say he has the most knowledge of any politician, each time with no evidence to back it up.

I’m talking people of influence which I assume (maybe wrongly) nobody on here is. Although if there has been criticism on here from his supporters it has been what I would call fairly mild. I think the likes of Corbyn, Owen Jones etc have a responsibility what they put out as they do influence people. For them it may be about likes, retweets and building their own profile, but it may have the consequence of building up a group of Trump supporters.

I feel if you point these things out when Trump and Boris supporters do it, then you need to be consistent. If you make claims and ask for evidence, I think there is a duty to at least discuss the evidence when it comes, not just ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative. I worry that those on the left may be susceptible to false news and conspiracy theories and I think there is a danger of making it mainstream. I think calling it out is absolutely the right thing to do.

The thing is it’s not just a journalist writes something. It has to go through a whole editorial process, this is very different to someone just putting something on twitter. Of course it’s not as good a source as a video showing exactly what happened, but I haven’t seen many going after the source. The fact most left commentators are just pretending it doesn’t exist (when they would be all over it if it said the opposite) may lead to people drawing their own conclusions. I don’t rule out that it may have been Israel , but at this point it doesn’t seem the evidence points that way.

The interesting thing is I have not heard a single person on the left criticise him for leaving up a statement which is (with the evidence as it is now) false and effectively a conspiracy theory, this is an MP who should know better. It is perfectly fine to retract, delete etc as the evidence changes,

I see it differently, there is nothing political point scoring about following the evidence and being open to evidence that doesn’t support your view. My criticism is not aimed at people on here, but those people with profile who have the ability to influence others. There have been great political minds on the left, but we the likes of Corbyn and Owen Jones are not in that category. If we call out fake news and conspiracy theory thinking on the right, we must also on the left.

I’m not sure apologies, but I do believe but should be called out as it’s the kind of behaviour the left would be calling the right out for doing the same. So when it kicked off we had people on the left talking about the need for independent verification, then a period of no balance where only evidence that contradicted the Israel view was promoted, then an independent agency (what they were initially asking for) comes out with a statement, they completely ignore it when we all know they would be all over it if it said the opposite. We still have the previous labour leader stating it was Israel on twitter with no evidence to back this up. This is Trump/Trump supporter behaviour and should be called out as such. Certainly wouldn’t call everyone on the left as the same, but there seems to be a significant amount.

Corbyn still has Israel air strikes as responsible on his twitter. My guess is most of the left commentators will just ignore it.

Of course Tory voters stayed at home, it’s a by election and you’re looking at 20-30 percent lower turnout. Labour voters stayed home as well. To me it’s not just the fact Tory voters aren’t bothered about Starmer being PM, but also Lib Dem voters aren’t, that could be crucial in tactical voting.

Staind,it’s been a while! Looks like someone on the outside looking in!

I agree we need that independence to draw any conclusions, all I am seeing on social media is cherry picking. Best case people not really understanding the evidence, unable to make basic assessments about sources etc, worst case people trying to mislead.

I think they mean things like the war on motorists, worked in Uxbridge, so must work everywhere else!

I guess the question I would ask the usual questions. Who is Mehdi Hassan? Would he be open to evidence that supports the opposite view, or is he cherrypicking? Who are the forensic archi and Cobb Smith? How strong is their evidence? What is making it suggestive and not definitive?

Suggesting not definitively seems quite vague to me!

I think after the personality of Boris and madness of Truss the electorate just want competent and sensible. Sunak probably fits the latter, but tarnished by the Tory brand. I think Starmer is a clever politician and it wasn’t easy to get through the Corbyn years. Look at the likes of Chuka and Burnham, more charismatic but couldn’t get themselves in the position.