pink_triangle

In British democratic history? How many years do you think that covers?

I did A level (admittedly not degree level like Owen) History. There were times when British politics was riddled (even more than now) with corruption. If we are talking most dishonest ever then even Boris probably isn’t in contention. It’s naive to think political dishonesty started with the smartphone and twitter. I have low expectations of Jones, but he should be better than this kind of sensationalist (click bait) bullshit.

The regression in VVD over the last couple of years is amazing. I think 2/3 years ago he was as good as any defender in the world, he is no longer in that conversation.

Oxbridge has obviously gone downhill if people come out with a history degree and make that kind of assessment.

Latest wisdom from labour supporter Owen Jones Genuinely think Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson are the two most dishonest frontline politicians in British democratic history

They don’t want to give the torys ammunition for their attack adverts. However ask the question which party will be the best for NHS, social care and workers in power.

Most of the public are scared by rocking the boat too much, we can wave a magic wand and make everyone think like us, or try to find common ground. The trouble is some on the left would rather come second being pure than first with compromise. Some may have the bank account to afford that way of thinking, others are not so fortunate.

I suspect Starmer will think if he is upsetting people on twitter he is probably on the right line.

I’m not even sure what a centrist is. It seems to be a term made up by left wingers to mock those on the centre left who want to get things done. To me a centrist is the person in my office who spends zero times discussing politics beyond an election, voted for Blair, Cameron and ( through gritted teeth as they didn’t like Jez) Boris.

I honestly don’t believe there is any more bickering in labour than the tories or SNP. I think twitter makes divisions look bigger than they are.

Just like Jez it’s a much more fun job being leader of the opposition.

To be honest I don’t think there is a huge amount of difference between labour, snp and Lib Dem. I think they are all occupying similar political space.

I always thought labour minority government was the most likely and that’s how I still feel. I am not sure who these progressive and more imaginative partners would be. The Greens would consider it a major success if they doubled from 1 mp to 2.

The polls were always going to tighten, I don’t think there is anyone in labour who had not anticipated that. I agree that labour need to be a broad coalition, the fact is in FPTP not every voter is of equal value. If losing a left wing vote in Liverpool gains a red wall vote in Bolton, overall you are better off. These are calculations all parties will make. FPTP also means people will vote tactically and not for the party that beat reflect their views. It’s easy to say you will punish labour now. However in Wrexham (my old constituency) a vote against labour is effectively a vote for the Tory candidate.

If you are going by those types of tenuous connections, I doubt there is a clean politician out there. It’s not like he has made Rolf Harris his chief of staff.

They need to send Rishi out with a taser on some of the roughest streets in the country. Having seen him try to fill up a car with Petrol and use a contactless cash card, what could possibly go wrong!

I think it depends where you live. Many on the left who preach about leniency and rehabilitation would run a mile from the most deprived areas of the country. I see people who constantly live on edge living in blocks of flats where alcohol and drug abuse and crime is rampant. I can completely understand why they favour tougher action on crime.

Don’t the DPP work within parameters set by the government?

A tiny proportion of rape claims result in a conviction. I would like (although have no clue how to get there) more convictions. This would result in more people spending time in prison. Does this make me right wing? I would say protecting the vulnerable is a left wing thing, but am told harsher sentencing is a right wing thing, which one is it? Conversations about how to tackle crime are complex and often led by those who are largely insulated.

For all we know the 4500 were detained in secure mental health facilities instead of prison, the devil is in the detail. As you say we won’t know individual cases, but it’s possible trends could be identified in terms of people having light sentences. I have no doubt in an election campaign labour will have to say what they will do to tackle the problem.

I would like to debate whether the 4500 should be in jail or not, but people seem more occupied by the window dressing than potentially 4500 victims. We know there are far more that never get any level of justice. To be honest I think this is a minor (and quickly forgotten story) and the key question is are you ok with labour going into the next election with a tougher message on crime if it means they can get the votes to form a government. I personally am and I think it is their only route to winning an election and making things better.

That’s generally how I feel. Don’t care too much they did it, wouldn’t have been bothered if they didn’t. I don’t think people will be talking about it come the election. For all the talk about not doing things like the torys, there is no prize for being a good sport and runner up. My belief remains that the country will be better served with a Starmer led government. If talking tough on crime helps achieve that then that’s fine by me.

Labour have to win an election by building a coalition of voters, that route doesn’t exist with a message about shorter sentences and leniency. However my belief is that a labour government will do a better job in reducing crime by tackling poverty and investing in rehabilitation. As I have said I am a bit wary about making crime a simplistic right/left issue. Very few of any political persuasion believe nobody convicted or everyone convicted should be in prison, so I think debating where the line is drawn is valid. When it comes to sexual assault there should probably be more convictions as prosecution levels are so low. A higher prosecution rate would result in more people in prison, is it right wing to think this would be good?

I think it’s part of a strategy about being tough on crime. I think most will have forgotten about the individual poster come election day, but have no doubt the overall strategy to look strong in this area will continue. I see the next election being a fight on the economy, NHS, education and crime. Nobody is talking about small boats on the doorstep.

I think that’s correct, but let’s face it the Torys blame in 2023 blame labour for things they have had 13 years to sort out. I see this is Sunak being the figurehead of the government rather than the man signing off on every decision.