pink_triangle

Let’s not forget this argument that labour and the Tory’s are the same is a political argument by the likes of SNP, Plaid and greens to take labour votes. My friend in Wrexham (2000 Tory majority) is going to vote plaid (because the other 2 are the same) and the only person who will benefit from that thinking is the Tory no.

They did a lot of good. Improvement of the NHS, improved education, minimum wage, reduced poverty, implemented sure start. It wasn’t perfect and they could have done more. I would however argue that between 1997 and 2010 people in general felt better than they do now. The trouble with Corbyn supporters downplaying the achievements of the Labour government. It feeds into the narrative that there is no point changing. I personally see a lot of areas where Starmer Labour will improve the country, they may not move as much as some would like, but they can shift things in the right direction.

I thought Corbyn was useless and destined for failure. I still voted labour in 2019 as I believe a labour government is better than a Tory one. I think most Corbyn supporters will come to a similar conclusion in 2024

Conservatives will set expectations low and will therefore probably meet them. I’m not sure the local elections will tell the whole story as it’s more politically engaged people voting than the “once every 5 years “ crew who determine elections. There will also be labour left voters who will protest in a local election, but in a general election note there are only 2 parties who can lead a government and take a pragmatic approach.

I’m assuming they have evidence that non Jews with similar views are treated differently?

Good quote from Keir from PMQ "Sunak boasted that he didn't know a single working class person.. He proudly told a Tory garden party how he moved money from poorer areas and handed it to rich ones.. He looks at a petrol pump and debit card as if they just arrived from Mars.

It’s funny how so few independent minded MPs have the confidence to stand as an independent in an election, almost as if most people vote party and not candidate!

He wants to get rid of people who cost labour votes, in that respect good for him. Last time I checked Mcdonnell, Burgon, Sultana were all in the party, I seems to me all areas are represented. I think we need to repeat however that if the coalition is narrower with Corbyns absence, that is down to Corbyn and not Starmer. If he said the words no comment he would still be a labour MP. His ego wouldn’t allow that.

We would have been voted in that constituency if we stood with a red rosette. Admittedly I am too young to have made 4 decades!

I voted for labour in 2019 thinking Corbyn was shit. Most Corbyn supporters will vote labour in 2024 even if they think Starmer is shit. The alternative is conservatives and Sunak. I honestly think those who won’t vote labour because Corbyn is not an MP is relatively small, despite the noise they make. Take away all those who live in safe labour areas (who vote makes no difference) then it’s even smaller.

Who are they going to vote for. Our political system means most of their votes won’t count anyway. Of those living in swing seats will they vote green and let the torys win? Some may, most won’t.

I don’t think “the left” are all middle class, opposition types. I think that grouping is noisy on twitter, but doesn’t reflect the real world. I think most on the left, just want a labour government. Some may wish Corbyn was still an MP, but that doesn’t mean they will throw their toys out and let the Torys in because they haven’t got their own way. I do think Corbyn is a big turn off for labour in seats they need to win. Starmer doesn’t want to go into an election as the man who caved to Corbyn. Jez made his choice.

I think people exaggerate the differences between centre left MPs and the socialist wing. They agree on loads of stuff, the agreements just get less attention. I think they can easily find common ground if labour win. As long as the socialists focus on bread and butter issues and not Middle East politics. So far you get the impression the socialist grouping are being sensible and staying quiet. A big moment could be if Jez stands as an independent as they may have to pick a side.

In 2024 labour need votes wherever they come from. The poor and vulnerable need a labour government now, they can’t afford an election to be sacrificed to massage the ego of a long serving MP and his followers. Your right in some extent labour need left (whatever that means) votes, but no point keeping hold of Corbynite voters in Liverpool and London if it costs you similar voters in Wrexham and Bolton. I think the key thing is also “the left” will vote for labour as the only options available are a conservative led government or a labour led one. I consider myself on the pragmatic left and voted for Corbyn in 2019. Many to the left of me will reach the same conclusion come the next election. Some middle class Momentum types are happy in opposition, most on the left (whatever shade) want to get in government and start changing things.

What needs to be negotiated. Instead of apologising and accepting the report in full, the middle ground could have been no comment, he chose not to take it. If labour had let him back in the result would have been constant questions about Starmer supporting the report denying Corbyn. It would have been all over conservative literature and more importantly it would have cost labour votes and seats in a general election. Starmer could choose to protect the ego of a long standing MP, or the vulnerable and poor who need food, health and education. I think he made the correct choice.

It’s not they couldn’t find a way back. They offered a way back which was to accept the findings of the report, Corbyn chose not to take the way back. Corbyn takes all the blame here, he chose his ego over party and public.

I think he had some horrible views, but he wrote some good books. I happily have let my kids read them and went to watch Matilda in the theatre last month. To me it’s a non story.

They didn’t have a choice with Corbyn. He claimed the EHRC report was exaggerated, it left Starmer no choice. If Corbyn really cared about the vulnerable and poor he could have said nothing, instead he chose his ego and echo chamber. From that point it’s a political calculation and the votes for dumping Corbyn are more than you get for keeping him. As for Abbott I respect her for getting elected. I admire her dignity in how she has handled abhorrent racism. I think however she is a pretty mediocre politician. Completely out of her depth when in the shadow cabinet.

Agreed, how many people on the doorstep are prioritising Roald Dahl books, not many!

It is a broad coalition and there are several MPs on the left and many more voters. Corbyn and Abbott have not got into trouble for being left wing, but getting themselves tied up on the antisemitism issue. Too many on the left gave this obsession about Israel. In the real world I have worked community NHS for 15 years and patients talk politics all the time. In that time the amount who have discussed anything related to Middle East politics is a big fat 0.

It doesn’t really pass the smell test. Salmond, Sturgeon et al created a culture of pure loyalty where the leadership should never be questioned. The consequences of this approach has contributed to the issues we see today.

I have supported Wrexham for 35 years and this is the first title we have won. Papa Johns trophy here we come.

I think squad strength is telling. Arsenal only route to the title was playing the same players every week and hope they get through. City have both the depth and that bit more quality.

I honestly believe the BBC do a pretty good job at staying neutral . The right think they are left wing and the left think they are right wing. This suggests to me they aren’t doing too bad.

Do you think they would have let a labour MP on in the same situation, I think they probably would.