Cricket

[TheGayTent]

9 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Even without Bumrah it was an impressive attack. And wasn't Kohli the only player on either team who averaged 40? Cook described it as the toughest batting conditions he'd ever played in.

Kohli averaged 60. He’s good but he’s not god. Cook has since admitted he didn’t have the same intensity to work and train by then. 

9 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I love Mo, he's one of my favourite cricketers. He was clearly struggling vs Australia, the NZ pitches wouldn't have suited him and he needed a break, but he could have been handed a central contract and still given that time off. Hell Bairstow has a test contract.

Are you sure they didn’t discuss a test contract with him rather than just tell him he didn’t have one? 

[kaosmark2]

13 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Kohli averaged 60. He’s good but he’s not god. Cook has since admitted he didn’t have the same intensity to work and train by then. 

Are you sure they didn’t discuss a test contract with him rather than just tell him he didn’t have one? 

And yet India lost, because noone else could get close to that. Cook, Root, Stokes, Pujara, none of them dominated with runs. 5 great batsman between both teams with a record of scoring in England, as well as 3 Indian openers with otherwise impressive records all averaging passably instead of impressively. 3 scores over 350 all series between both teams. Buttler scoring runs then meant something. Whether it means enough to justify him staying again is another question, but his summer was still impressive. 

The question is more whether that was a golden patch and the peak of his ability, or whether the negative circumstances around the rest of his test career mean that that period could potentially be typical. My belief is that Buttler is good enough for test cricket, but with the emergence of Pope and a top order that looks good enough that we shouldn't need to shunt Stokes up to 3, he'd have to keep wicket to stay in the team, and he's not a better keeper-batsman overall than Foakes.

Re. Moeen, no I'm not sure. Several articles reported it as he'd not been given a contract and that's mismanagement. There was also an article from Moeen himself who described it as "having lost my Test central contract:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/dec/11/moeen-ali-taking-break-test-cricket-prolong-career

Edited January 29, 2020 by kaosmark2

[TheGayTent]

12 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

And yet India lost, because noone else could get close to that. Cook, Root, Stokes, Pujara, none of them dominated with runs. 5 great batsman between both teams with a record of scoring in England, as well as 3 Indian openers with otherwise impressive records all averaging passably instead of impressively. 3 scores over 350 all series between both teams. Buttler scoring runs then meant something. Whether it means enough to justify him staying again is another question, but his summer was still impressive. 
 

We’ll agree to disagree! Stokes is a great all rounder not a great batsmen. He’s very unlikely to average more than 40 at the end of his test career. Cook was cooked by his own admission. Root was finding his feet with his captaincy, and in poor touch. 
 

Moving on - how great was Broad’s bowling in South Africa? 

12 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Re. Moeen, no I'm not sure. Several articles reported it as he'd not been given a contract and that's mismanagement. There was also an article from Moeen himself who described it as "having lost my Test central contract:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/dec/11/moeen-ali-taking-break-test-cricket-prolong-career

I suspect like most things, it’s not black and white - there’s shades of grey. Mo’s taken nearly 200 test wickets but no individual is more important than the team. The sounds are that Mo is wanted and being given all the support and time he needs. You can’t though, expect a player to be given unlimited time off, still get full pay, and expect to waltz back into the side whenever you feel like it (not that I’m suggesting that’s what Mo expects). What I’m saying is, I think both parties have handled it pretty well - as well as it could be anyway. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, TheGayTent said:

We’ll agree to disagree! Stokes is a great all rounder not a great batsmen. He’s very unlikely to average more than 40 at the end of his test career. Cook was cooked by his own admission. Root was finding his feet with his captaincy, and in poor touch. 
 

Moving on - how great was Broad’s bowling in South Africa? 

I suspect like most things, it’s not black and white - there’s shades of grey. Mo’s taken nearly 200 test wickets but no individual is more important than the team. The sounds are that Mo is wanted and being given all the support and time he needs. You can’t though, expect a player to be given unlimited time off, still get full pay, and expect to waltz back into the side whenever you feel like it (not that I’m suggesting that’s what Mo expects). What I’m saying is, I think both parties have handled it pretty well - as well as it could be anyway. 

Broad has been great this last year. I fully admit I've misjudged his decline. Was highly enjoyable seeing him wrap Warner in knots and his bowling this series is the best I've seen him away from home in a long time. 

Both sides are making positive noises about each other. I also think it was 100% right for Moeen not to be near the NZ tour. It just depends how the contract termination was handled. 

Edit: i think Stokes could end up averaging 40 with the bat by the end of his career, doesn't he average 37 atm? 

Edited January 30, 2020 by kaosmark2

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Edit: i think Stokes could end up averaging 40 with the bat by the end of his career, doesn't he average 37 atm? 

Yes he does. I’m very much of the viewpoint he’s currently in a purple patch which won’t last forever

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Yes he does. I’m very much of the viewpoint he’s currently in a purple patch which won’t last forever

Well the comparisons to Kallis are clearly ridiculous, his defensive game has improved in a manner that I think will generally stick and help his average, but I agree his current form won't continue to the same extent. It's more what happens during/after his next drop in form.

[TheGayTent]

Foakes in, Bairstow ‘rested’

[TheGayTent]

Jennings is in the squad....does this mean he plays? 

[Homer]

29 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Jennings is in the squad....does this mean he plays? 

I reckon he is backup for the top 3 as a good player of spin. Denly prob just about holds his spot due to his leg spin.

[TheGayTent]

I hope you’re right but I’m fearful you aren’t. 

[kaosmark2]

4 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Foakes in, Bairstow ‘rested’

Good on the first. I'm glad bairstow isn't in the squad but he needs to be kept away from the test team until he stops getting bowled. 

4 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Jennings is in the squad....does this mean he plays? 

If Moeen were in the squad, then Jennings probably would have played if called up, but Denly + Root make up a test bowler between them and we're short a spinner. I think he's just back up. 

I don't hate the idea of him as a subcontinental batsman only. 

[kingbadger]

Picking Denly for the T20s to bat 6 is just bizarre, as is the fact that if they're opening with Buttler then there's no genuine number 6 if you factor in Morgan and Stokes are at 4 and 5. Those last 3 are the only middle order players we have, we have an opener at 6 and then 2 spare openers on the sidelines. I get Buttler has performed well opening in the IPL, but Banton has proved he can do it in the BBL and with the T20 World Cup in Australia opening with him and leaving Buttler at 6 should he a no brainer.

Jennings has to play for me. Denly has been distinctly mediocre with the bat and his leg spin is very much part time and won't trouble the Sri Lankans at all. He's a stop gap cricket at 33, whereas Jennings could still have a future playing for England, even if only in the sub continent as a specialist.

If the pitches are anything like last time, I'd be brave and go with all 3 spinners and one specialist seamer to go with Stokes. 

[TheGayTent]

Gutted that Wood has picked up a side strain, but a good opportunity for Mahmood I guess. More worrying is the talk about Leach’s fitness issues...squad have flown out today - hopefully no new injury concerns before the Galle test! 

[TheGayTent]

On 2/13/2020 at 11:11 PM, kingbadger said:

Denly has been distinctly mediocre with the bat and his leg spin is very much part time and won't trouble the Sri Lankans at all. He's a stop gap cricket at 33, whereas Jennings could still have a future playing for England, even if only in the sub continent as a specialist.
 

Cant argue with that really, other than to say I suspect a big reason behind Stokes’ and Pope’s success in South Africa was down to Denly. 

On 2/13/2020 at 11:11 PM, kingbadger said:

If the pitches are anything like last time, I'd be brave and go with all 3 spinners and one specialist seamer to go with Stokes.

Rumours are they’re far drier and batsman friendly than Nov 18. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, TheGayTent said:

Gutted that Wood has picked up a side strain, but a good opportunity for Mahmood I guess. More worrying is the talk about Leach’s fitness issues...squad have flown out today - hopefully no new injury concerns before the Galle test! 

Wood, Archer, Anderson, Moeen, Rashid, and potentially Leach are arguably the 6 top bowling picks for Sri Lankan conditions. Stone out as well.

On 2/13/2020 at 11:11 PM, kingbadger said:

If the pitches are anything like last time, I'd be brave and go with all 3 spinners and one specialist seamer to go with Stokes. 

I feel like pulling in Parkinson/Crane/Virdi/other would be a huge ask. If Leach is out, then maybe one of them plays alongside Bess, I wouldn't pick a 3rd spinner that isn't ready for the sake of it, particularly as Root is quite a handy bowler.

I'd rather have Stokes + 2 of Broad/S Curran/Mahmood/Woakes, 2 proper spinners and then the part-timers.

[kingbadger]

18 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I feel like pulling in Parkinson/Crane/Virdi/other would be a huge ask. If Leach is out, then maybe one of them plays alongside Bess, I wouldn't pick a 3rd spinner that isn't ready for the sake of it, particularly as Root is quite a handy bowler.

I'd rather have Stokes + 2 of Broad/S Curran/Mahmood/Woakes, 2 proper spinners and then the part-timers.

Virdi is by far the outstanding candidate if Leach is out, Parkinson and Crane shouldn't relied upon as half of a 2 pronged attack given how little FC cricket they get. Fitness issues aside Virdi is probably the most experienced in the FC game and has taken hatfuls of wickets when he has played. 

The fact the country only has 2 selectable front line spinners in Bess and Leach in terms of talent and experience shows how unfit for purpose the county system really is. 

If the pitches are going to be as batsman friendly as suggested then it's going to come down to the strength of the bowling line ups. Think we'll be doing very well to come out of the series with a draw.

[TheGayTent]

30 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Virdi is by far the outstanding candidate if Leach is out, Parkinson and Crane shouldn't relied upon as half of a 2 pronged attack given how little FC cricket they get. Fitness issues aside Virdi is probably the most experienced in the FC game and has taken hatfuls of wickets when he has played. 
 

Think that’s slightly over the top - moneybags fan one assumes 

30 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

The fact the country only has 2 selectable front line spinners in Bess and Leach in terms of talent and experience shows how unfit for purpose the county system really is. 
 

Agreed. We have no county championship game between 8th July and 23rd August...

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, kingbadger said:

Virdi is by far the outstanding candidate if Leach is out, Parkinson and Crane shouldn't relied upon as half of a 2 pronged attack given how little FC cricket they get. Fitness issues aside Virdi is probably the most experienced in the FC game and has taken hatfuls of wickets when he has played. 

The fact the country only has 2 selectable front line spinners in Bess and Leach in terms of talent and experience shows how unfit for purpose the county system really is. 

If the pitches are going to be as batsman friendly as suggested then it's going to come down to the strength of the bowling line ups. Think we'll be doing very well to come out of the series with a draw.

As TGT says, the scheduling is a big problem. Putting white ball cricket in peak season when it'll be best for developing pacers, spinners, and batsmen is the exact problem.

[kingbadger]

45 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Think that’s slightly over the top - moneybags fan one assumes 

Nope, Essex fan. Who else is there though other than Virdi? I'm not saying he's banging on the door for selection but he's probably the 3rd best spinner currently available for selection, with Bess and Leach above him. We don't really have any other options, the cupboard is bare on the spin bowling front. It's why he's with the Lions at the moment out in Aus.

[kaosmark2]

4 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Nope, Essex fan. Who else is there though other than Virdi? I'm not saying he's banging on the door for selection but he's probably the 3rd best spinner currently available for selection, with Bess and Leach above him. We don't really have any other options, the cupboard is bare on the spin bowling front. It's why he's with the Lions at the moment out in Aus.

Dawson is a low risk, low reward choice. Virdi, Parkinson, Crane all gambles on a young spinner. I haven't seen enough of any of them to say that one stands above the other 2. 

[TheGayTent]

11 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Nope, Essex fan.
 

You poor sod.

11 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Who else is there though other than Virdi? I'm not saying he's banging on the door for selection but he's probably the 3rd best spinner currently available for selection, with Bess and Leach above him. We don't really have any other options, the cupboard is bare on the spin bowling front. It's why he's with the Lions at the moment out in Aus.

I’m not sure 5 county championship games in a season, and less than 2 seasons worth in total, proves he’s the next cab off the rank. He could easily be the next Adam Riley.

 I do agree, there’s no one else though. I guess if they were to take him, at least the Sri Lankan conditions might help him with his weight problems...

Fingers and toes crossed Leach is fit. 

[kingbadger]

19 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Dawson is a low risk, low reward choice. Virdi, Parkinson, Crane all gambles on a young spinner. I haven't seen enough of any of them to say that one stands above the other 2. 

10 wickets @ 53 in 2019 doesn't bode well though. Seems as if he's become somewhat of a limited overs player, certainly in terms of his bowling.

[kingbadger]

11 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

You poor sod.

I’m not sure 5 county championship games in a season, and less than 2 seasons worth in total, proves he’s the next cab off the rank. He could easily be the next Adam Riley.

 I do agree, there’s no one else though. I guess if they were to take him, at least the Sri Lankan conditions might help him with his weight problems...

Fingers and toes crossed Leach is fit. 

2 Championships and a T20 title in 3 years, it's torture! 

Oh in no way am I saying he's proven at all, but as you say he's the next cab off the rank. Desperately short cab rank too, Virdi and Crane are probably the only 2 viable options not already in the squad.

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

10 wickets @ 53 in 2019 doesn't bode well though. Seems as if he's become somewhat of a limited overs player, certainly in terms of his bowling.

200 wickets @ 35 is a very uninspiring but borderline acceptable record in FC cricket. I'd prefer to see Parkinson/Virdi/Crane given a chance, but only if it's the right thing for their career. Getting smashed around by Sri Lankan batsmen with the pressure on might kill any potential they have. If Parkinson got leapfrogged by Bess because of a fear of the damage a bad game could do to his career, I'd prefer to call in a stop-gap like Dawson.

Albeit I don't think any of them can be as bad as Kerrigan.

[TheGayTent]

Gutted. Supposed to be flying out Tuesday