Cricket

[kaosmark2]

I had a cracking day. Shame Sri Lanka didn't put up a bit more of a fight but it's so hard facing broad and Anderson in those conditions. 

Hoping for a decent performance from both teams tomorrow and Sunday, would prefer it builds to some finale. 

Glad to see cook enforce the follow on though, even if I might see less cricket because of it. 

[eastynh]

3 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

T20 is not cricket....

Why is it not cricket? How can you watch Kohli and the like, playing proper shots all round the ground and say it is not cricket?

It is absolutely fantastic. The IPL and Big Bash are splendid entertainment. It has revitalised cricket in both countries and maintained it as a dominant sport. The English devised t20 and yet we are getting left behind. Fresh blood is not coming into the game. Sky has been fantastic for the game but having no access to top class cricken on terrestial tv is doing harm in the long term.

[kaosmark2]

Test cricket puts the emphasis on both bowlers and batsmen to win you games. T20 puts it on batsmen to win and bowlers to not lose. Taking wickets is an art, both in terms of quality of balls, fielding placement, set up with other deliveries, restricting runs, seducing into playing shots, etc. T20 reduces that art down to making a ball hard to hit for a boundary.

Batting abs fielding in t20 is impressive and athletic, but the bowling is not artful. The captaincy is restricted beyond complexity and subtlety. The beauty of test cricket is the ebb and flow, the shifts in momentum, and the skill required to create that, in batting, captaincy, fielding and bowling.

T20 games are generally as forgettable as typical football matches. 2 hours, fairly similar to any other in the sport, barely distinguishable. Test matches and series are a tense and memorable experience, with each ground and conditions having impact.

The complexity that made me fall in love with test cricket is missing in the shorter forms of the game, and I cannot see how that cutoff change. 

[TheGayTent]

Can't be arsed to debate T20 in any length. It's a throwaway bit of fun, and that's it. 

However, one point that interested me that was made earlier - the English are getting left behind when compared to India and Australia? Exactly where in the 2016 T20 World Cup did the three nations finish? 

[eastynh]

10 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Test cricket puts the emphasis on both bowlers and batsmen to win you games. T20 puts it on batsmen to win and bowlers to not lose. Taking wickets is an art, both in terms of quality of balls, fielding placement, set up with other deliveries, restricting runs, seducing into playing shots, etc. T20 reduces that art down to making a ball hard to hit for a boundary.

Batting abs fielding in t20 is impressive and athletic, but the bowling is not artful. The captaincy is restricted beyond complexity and subtlety. The beauty of test cricket is the ebb and flow, the shifts in momentum, and the skill required to create that, in batting, captaincy, fielding and bowling.

T20 games are generally as forgettable as typical football matches. 2 hours, fairly similar to any other in the sport, barely distinguishable. Test matches and series are a tense and memorable experience, with each ground and conditions having impact.

The complexity that made me fall in love with test cricket is missing in the shorter forms of the game, and I cannot see how that cutoff change. 

No one would disagree with you. I fell in love with the game during the 80's when it was shown on terrestrial tv. Unfortunately due to the area I live and my background, I never got the opportunity to play. Thankfully I fell in love with the game,even though I never got the opportunity to play.

Roll on 20 odd years and test cricket is no longer shown on terrestrial tv, apart from the odd half hour highlights show on 5. Participation in cricket is down. Some counties are in financial trouble and requite funding from the ECB. Test crowds are down, county attendances are down as well.

Yet the purists sit there saying t20 is not cricket even though it offers opportunities to revitalise and reinvigorate the game. Test cricket will die off slowly if things continue in the same vein. This is even with a very good current England team in all forms. If t20 offers a gateway for people into the game and brings in much needed income then that can only be a good thing.

Survival of the fittest. If you don't evolve then you die. Crickets history is restricting future in this country.

[kaosmark2]

My seat really is wet. 

[TheGayTent]

Oh dear chef...

[kaosmark2]

Yeah... 

Compton just out of form or also out of chances? I suspect he needs a big score in the remainder of this series or he gets dropped. 

Personally, I want to see Ballance in the lineup again.

[TheGayTent]

4 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Personally, I want to see Ballance in the lineup again.

Won't happen - hasn't pleased the management with his attitude towards improving his technique. 

[kaosmark2]

20 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Won't happen - hasn't pleased the management with his attitude towards improving his technique. 

Seems incredibly weird to me, loads of batsmen have differing techniques and he averages 45 even with the slump before he was dropped.

[TheGayTent]

21 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Seems incredibly weird to me, loads of batsmen have differing techniques and he averages 45 even with the slump before he was dropped.

Sometimes faces just don't fit. See Swann and Fletcher. 

[kaosmark2]

Oh Joe... 

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Oh Joe... 

Done that a lot recently. Annoying, but you'd take that score every time 

[kaosmark2]

13 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Done that a lot recently. Annoying, but you'd take that score every time 

Absolutely. He's not getting the centuries but still reliably scoring 40-80 almost every innings. 

[kaosmark2]

All the talk of Borthwick being brought into the test side as a batting all rounder makes me feel sorry for Moeen. He'd love a run higher than 7/8, was never a truly full time spinner, and has produced some brilliantly crucial innings for us.

Not against giving Borthwick a chance, but the idea he should jump higher than Moeen in the order irks me. 

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

All the talk of Borthwick being brought into the test side as a batting all rounder makes me feel sorry for Moeen. He'd love a run higher than 7/8, was never a truly full time spinner, and has produced some brilliantly crucial innings for us.

Not against giving Borthwick a chance, but the idea he should jump higher than Moeen in the order irks me. 

I think it's mid term thinking rather than a thought to replace Mooen short term. We've got 7 tests on the sub continent before the end of the year, where we're going to want to play 2 spinners. 

Do you keep Moeen in for the next 5 tests at home to SL and Pak and then pick a Borthwick on tour to go with Moeen? Or do you have another look at him in a home series at venues and in conditions that don't lend themselves to picking 2 spinners - and therefore you pick him instead of Mooen? 

Ah - I see what you mean now...picking him as a batsmen which keeps Moeen down at 7? Or 8 when Stokes returns? Yeah tough on Mooen, but probably worth it if it means having a successful No.3 batsman. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by TheGayTent

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

I think it's mid term thinking rather than a thought to replace Mooen short term. We've got 7 tests on the sub continent before the end of the year, where we're going to want to play 2 spinners. 

Do you keep Moeen in for the next 5 tests at home to SL and Pak and then pick a Borthwick on tour to go with Moeen? Or do you have another look at him in a home series at venues and in conditions that don't lend themselves to picking 2 spinners - and therefore you pick him instead of Mooen? 

Ah - I see what you mean now...picking him as a batsmen which keeps Moeen down at 7? Or 8 when Stokes returns? Yeah tough on Mooen, but probably worth it if it means having a successful No.3 batsman. 

Oh yeah, looking at Borthwick makes complete sense to me. I'm just saying it's tough on Moeen if both play but Moeen stays at 7/8. He's clearly not an opener but I suspect he'd do a better job at 4/5/6 than 7/8. He often plays more aggressively than I suspect he would otherwise because he starts to run out of partners.

[TheGayTent]

That Compton finished at test level one would think

[kaosmark2]

Yeah. Short of a huge Sri Lankan score and second innings hundred. 

On his first run he didn't look great, but he looked like he'd hang around and see off the new ball. I thought at 3 he'd stop collapses, but he's been in awful form.

Who to come in? Is the concensus Borthwick?

[st dan]

Hopefully Balance will be recalled and given the Pakistan series to prove his worth. 

He hasn't been involved in the England set up since Bayliss has been in charge, so I would like to see him have at least one more chance. Going back to County cricket and struggling / impressing is completely different to a test international. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by st dan

[kaosmark2]

Ballance has a Test average of 47. He played under Bayliss for 2/3 Tests in the Ashes before getting dropped, despite his form being better than that of both Bell and Lyth at the time. Of all the batsmen that have been recalled/brought in since he got dropped only Bairstow's form has had an average over that period above 30.

I'm a big believer in giving batsmen 2 series' to prove themselves, or 3 if the first two are both tricky away tours. Compton's been giving a fair chance, and I think it's a shame he hasn't taken it. Borthwick is widely considered the next in line, and he offers a significant spin option as well (4 test wickets in his only match), so with wintering in Bangladesh and India I expect they'll try him vs Pakistan. All good reasoning, but IMO we have a proven batsman who deserves another 3 series' to reclaim his place. 

It looks like Vince has been promoted to Test cricket a year or so too soon, he might be good enough, he might not, but he has to be given the Pakistan series now he's been picked.

[TheGayTent]

No chance of a recall for Ballance unless he has changed his attitude and managed to convince Bayliss of it. Forget him. 

I'm not convinced by Borthwick as a 2nd spinner option - he hardly bowls anymore and whilst quite correctly it's been highlighted he picked up 4 wickets in one match, he did so at more than 6 an over. 

In India, the 2nd spinner will need to get through a lot of overs and that won't happen if he's expensive. 

[kaosmark2]

The thing is, we don't have good spin options. Ali, Rashid, Patel, Borthwick, Kerrigan, Root. None of them cry out that they can tie down an end and go at 2 an over for a period. I figure whoever spins it for us will go at 5/6 an over, so better to have the ones that'll get wickets at a decent rate.

[kaosmark2]

Lords being lifeless again.

[kaosmark2]

And again Hales...

Still, you'd take an opener averaging 58 over the series.