Cricket

[TheGayTent]

Cook looking imperious....less said about the rest the better....

Seen 45 overs which is more than I thought I would looking at the forecast this morning - hopefully we get some cloud cover when SA bowl

[kaosmark2]

Stick Moeen at 8 and he bats like a number 8....

320 would be an okay score in the conditions vs their attack, but we need a very good bowling performance and a serious second innings score to win this. Looking like it might be a close game though!

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Looking like it might be a close game though!

So much for that.

[TheGayTent]

Annoyed I only bought tickets for the first 2 days now!

[kaosmark2]

Good thing you didn't go yesterday, awful value for money with all the overs lost but no refund.

I'd still drop Jennings even after this 48. It was pretty chancy, and I don't think he'll be starting in the Ashes, so I'd give Stoneman/Robson/whoever the Old Trafford test so that they face some serious quality bowling before the tour down under. Sad that the Windies can't get their best players playing tests but the reality is they're a very weak team.

[TheGayTent]

£20 today - could be decent value. Still plenty of questions over selection for Old Trafford, the Windies series, and of course the looming Ashes...

[kaosmark2]

Hell of an end that!

 

Personally, I think selection for Old Trafford has to be taken with full pragmatism for looking forward. Jennings isn't going to be on the plane to Australia for me, even if he scored a 100 in each innings at OT, so I'd drop him now and keep an eye on his county form for in future.

The player who opens at OT should be the player who is believed to go to the Ashes. 4 Tests inc. against the Saffers attack is a lot better introduction to Test cricket than just playing a half-strength Windies side or being thrown straight in at the Gabba.

I'd also go back to playing 2 spinners at OT. I've said many times I don't like Moeen at 8, it's traditionally one of the more spinning pitches in the country, and Rashid/Leach/Dawson whoever gets taken down under should get a bit more play in familiar conditions first.

Lots of seam options though, Woakes coming back, TRJ looked great on debut, I still like Wood (when fully fit) and his pace and skiddy action. Anderson and Broad obviously excellent. Stokes a very handy option.

[TheGayTent]

23 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd also go back to playing 2 spinners at OT. I've said many times I don't like Moeen at 8, it's traditionally one of the more spinning pitches in the country, and Rashid/Leach/Dawson whoever gets taken down under should get a bit more play in familiar conditions first.

Horses for courses - I'd play two spinners if the wicket at Old Trafford looks like it requires it. I wouldn't let thoughts of the ashes come into my thoughts with regard to selection though. 

It's 99% certain that we'll play with one spinner in every ashes test this winter and that that spinner will be Moeen. 

 

[TheGayTent]

31 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Hell of an end that!

 

Personally, I think selection for Old Trafford has to be taken with full pragmatism for looking forward. Jennings isn't going to be on the plane to Australia for me, even if he scored a 100 in each innings at OT, so I'd drop him now and keep an eye on his county form for in future.

Do you mean you wouldn't pick Jennings for Oz even if he scores two centuries in the final test match or that the selectors wouldn't? 

[kaosmark2]

4 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Horses for courses - I'd play two spinners if the wicket at Old Trafford looks like it requires it. I wouldn't let thoughts of the ashes come into my thoughts with regard to selection though. 

It's 99% certain that we'll play with one spinner in every ashes test this winter and that that spinner will be Moeen. 

Well, if it clearly looks like 2 spinners won't be useful, there's no point, but I'd prefer to lean towards bowling one.

True enough, but if he gets injured do we just rely on Root and other part-timers? There'll be another in the squad.

Just now, TheGayTent said:

Do you mean you wouldn't pick Jennings for Oz even if he scores two centuries in the final test match or that the selectors wouldn't? 

I wouldn't. Every innings he's played so far has been chancy and he looks like he hasn't got the technique to face top quality seam bowling with a new ball. Mentality yes, a few scoring shots yes, but defensive technique doesn't seem to be there. He might become a player worth picking in the future, but I don't think he is now.

[TheGayTent]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

True enough, but if he gets injured do we just rely on Root and other part-timers? There'll be another in the squad.

Depends on the pitch. Unless it was Adelaide it wouldn't surprise me if we went with 5 seamers in that scenario. 

Certainly I think there's zero point in making our team weaker with the view that playing a second spinner at OT will help that pick with some experience prior to the ashes just in case Moeen gets injured. 

I'd put Moeen and Rashid on the plane but that's just me...

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I wouldn't. Every innings he's played so far has been chancy and he looks like he hasn't got the technique to face top quality seam bowling with a new ball. Mentality yes, a few scoring shots yes, but defensive technique doesn't seem to be there. He might become a player worth picking in the future, but I don't think he is now.

I agree - just wondered as I wasn't sure from your wording. 

Incidentally I have big reservations about Jimmy, Westley, and TBR with regards to the ashes. 

[kaosmark2]

9 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Depends on the pitch. Unless it was Adelaide it wouldn't surprise me if we went with 5 seamers in that scenario. 

Certainly I think there's zero point in making our team weaker with the view that playing a second spinner at OT will help that pick with some experience prior to the ashes just in case Moeen gets injured. 

I'd put Moeen and Rashid on the plane but that's just me...

I agree - just wondered as I wasn't sure from your wording. 

Incidentally I have big reservations about Jimmy, Westley, and TBR with regards to the ashes. 

Certainly possible. 

I don't really see the team as getting much weaker. When Moeen bats 8/9 he bats like a bowler anyway. Considering than Rashid and Dawson are viable number 8s anyway I think it's fine for the balance of the side.

I'd take Rashid. I always prefer bowlers to have the capability to take wickets.

Jennings' hundred had two big chances in it, including when on 0, but I thought it impressive how he recovered from that one. If every opportunity he gives gets taken though, he'd never get into double figures. Whoever opens in the Ashes (and prob vs Windies) is a short-mid term option until Hameed recovers form for me. I still quite like Sam Robson, in his previous 7 tests I thought he showed decent defensive technique and good application. Not a world-beater but he'd see off the new ball more times than not at least.

What reservations are those? I'm guessing for Jimmy it's fitness and consistency now, I doubt he'll be able to play every Test there. Westley looks promising but I've got my doubts, his first innings reminded me quite a lot of James Vince's stint in an England shirt. Who's TBR? Mistyped abbr of Roland-Jones?

[TheGayTent]

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't really see the team as getting much weaker. When Moeen bats 8/9 he bats like a bowler anyway. Considering than Rashid and Dawson are viable number 8s anyway I think it's fine for the balance of the side.

Moeen is a better batsmen and bowler than Dawson. 

I disagree with your assessment of Moeen at 8 but we've been here before so I won't go round again! 

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd take Rashid. I always prefer bowlers to have the capability to take wickets.

100%

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Jennings' hundred had two big chances in it, including when on 0, but I thought it impressive how he recovered from that one. If every opportunity he gives gets taken though, he'd never get into double figures.

Agreed - I think I even pointed out on here he should have had a pair on debut.

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Whoever opens in the Ashes (and prob vs Windies) is a short-mid term option until Hameed recovers form for me.

I very much hope so too. Shows the bollocks nature of the county season that Hameed has only one opportunity in red ball cricket between now and the first test against the windies to get any form...

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I still quite like Sam Robson, in his previous 7 tests I thought he showed decent defensive technique and good application. Not a world-beater but he'd see off the new ball more times than not at least.

Kept nicking off to the slips? If we're going for someone to see off the new ball then Compton? Though the truth is, we just have a dearth of quality openers at the moment - it happens from time to time. 

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What reservations are those? I'm guessing for Jimmy it's fitness and consistency now, I doubt he'll be able to play every Test there.

Anderson has never really been great in Oz. His average is a whole ten runs higher in Australia than his overall record, even with all his skill and variations. I can see him being like Gillespie was over here in 2005. He's hoping for a final swan song before retiring but I fear it might not be, and that would be a massive shame. Although it would be great for him to get his 500th test wicket over there (although it's conceivable he'll do that against the Windies if he isn't rested).

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Westley looks promising but I've got my doubts, his first innings reminded me quite a lot of James Vince's stint in an England shirt. Who's TBR? Mistyped abbr of Roland-Jones?

Yep. He's similar in application to Anderson with none of the experience, no how, and variation. Doing it in one game under cloud in England isn't going the best conditions to judge whether he can do it on a flat fast track in Perth. I suspect he'd get carted without taking many wickets. More Stuart Clark than Glenn McGrath? It's why we really need Wood and Woakes back fully fit and bowling quick. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, TheGayTent said:

Moeen is a better batsmen and bowler than Dawson. 

I disagree with your assessment of Moeen at 8 but we've been here before so I won't go round again! 

 

100%. But it's not Dawson replacing Moeen, it's Dawson replacing Malan/Butler/some other batter. If we lose 15 runs/innings from Moeen batting lower, then whoever's shifting the order down has to be doing something serious with the bat.

Quote

Agreed - I think I even pointed out on here he should have had a pair on debut.

I very much hope so too. Shows the bollocks nature of the county season that Hameed has only one opportunity in red ball cricket between now and the first test against the windies to get any form...

Kept nicking off to the slips? If we're going for someone to see off the new ball then Compton? Though the truth is, we just have a dearth of quality openers at the moment - it happens from time to time. 

Yeah. He got a hundred in a practice game, but still no serious opportunities.

He did, but rarely in the first 10 overs if I remember right? As you say though, there's a shortage of quality. I'd be fine with Compton coming back as well, but it seems unlikely.

Quote

Anderson has never really been great in Oz. His average is a whole ten runs higher in Australia than his overall record, even with all his skill and variations. I can see him being like Gillespie was over here in 2005. He's hoping for a final swan song before retiring but I fear it might not be, and that would be a massive shame. Although it would be great for him to get his 500th test wicket over there (although it's conceivable he'll do that against the Windies if he isn't rested).

Yep. He's similar in application to Anderson with none of the experience, no how, and variation. Doing it in one game under cloud in England isn't going the best conditions to judge whether he can do it on a flat fast track in Perth. I suspect he'd get carted without taking many wickets. More Stuart Clark than Glenn McGrath? It's why we really need Wood and Woakes back fully fit and bowling quick. 

True enough. He often gets wickets with the new ball but not a lot after. Broad's far better in those conditions.

Do you think he might be around next summer? He could clean up India with a bit of luck. 

Completely agree about Wood and Woakes.

Edited July 31, 2017 by kaosmark2

[TheGayTent]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

100%. But it's not Dawson replacing Moeen, it's Dawson replacing Malan/Butler/some other batter. If we lose 15 runs/innings from Moeen batting lower, then whoever's shifting the order down has to be doing something serious with the bat.

Buttler has played 20 (?) tests almost exclusively as wk so we're not really talking about him. We're talking about a specialist batsman aren't we who in test cricket needs to be averaging 40+.

Which is one of the many many reasons for not picking 6 bowlers - an idea I think is utter nonsense at the best of times. I can think of far more occasions when I'd pick 4 than 6. 

If a wicket takes spin and you want to play 2 spinners, I'd drop your 4th seamer (dependent on all rounders). If it's OT next week I'd rest TRJ, if it had been TB then it would have been Wood.

At a time when England's issue is batting and for a change not taking 20 wickets, the idea of picking 6 bowlers is not one I subscribe to. 

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Do you think he might be around next summer? He could clean up India with a bit of luck. 

Anderson? It's perfectly plausible but I don't see it. I'd be surprised if he even bothered with the NZ tests in Feb let alone hanging around until he's nearly 36 next summer. 

I think he has two ambitions left, the magic 500 and another Ashes win in Australia. Just can't see him having the motivation to bother with India and Pakistan.

 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, TheGayTent said:

Buttler has played 20 (?) tests almost exclusively as wk so we're not really talking about him. We're talking about a specialist batsman aren't we who in test cricket needs to be averaging 40+.

While I agree there, I don't we'll get many who do. We've only got 2 specialist batsmen that are actually fixtures in the team! Part of the reason we pick so many all-rounders is that they're amongst the best batsmen we have available. Lots of batters we've tried have produced worse than the likes of Woakes/Rashid, let alone Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen.

Which is one of the many many reasons for not picking 6 bowlers - an idea I think is utter nonsense at the best of times. I can think of far more occasions when I'd pick 4 than 6. 

If a wicket takes spin and you want to play 2 spinners, I'd drop your 4th seamer (dependent on all rounders). If it's OT next week I'd rest TRJ, if it had been TB then it would have been Wood.

At a time when England's issue is batting and for a change not taking 20 wickets, the idea of picking 6 bowlers is not one I subscribe to. 

I do agree that 5 bowlers has a better balance than 6, but who's crying out to be brought in? I know he got great balls this Test, but I don't think Malan is someone who can stabilise a line-up vulnerable to collapse, he's another T20 style cricketer. Ballance is the only old-style Test cricketer with good form who bats in the middle order in the county game, and while he's got the temperament the questions over technique remain.

Anderson? It's perfectly plausible but I don't see it. I'd be surprised if he even bothered with the NZ tests in Feb let alone hanging around until he's nearly 36 next summer. 

I think he has two ambitions left, the magic 500 and another Ashes win in Australia. Just can't see him having the motivation to bother with India and Pakistan.

Based on anything or just personal intuition and guesswork? I've not seen anything to indicate either way.

[TheGayTent]

11 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Part of the reason we pick so many all-rounders is that they're amongst the best batsmen we have available. Lots of batters we've tried have produced worse than the likes of Woakes/Rashid, let alone Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen.

Agreed, and it'll be further highlighted by the return of Woakes! 

However, we'll keep (correctly in my mind) picking new batsmen until such time as one (or more) succeeds. 

I'm still confident Hameed will be a good test player - I might even be tempted were I a selector, to play him for 3 tests against the Windies if Jennings fails at OT. 

[TheGayTent]

Can't work out how to fiddle the quote things to directly ask your question about Anderson but the answer is just intuition and guesswork. 

His body is showing signs of falling apart, he's missing more and more tests through little niggles than ever before, even with being rested unlike earlier years. His pace is markedly down, and he is being given shorter spells. 

He has talked about playing the Ashes for some time - but he has made no comment (that I have seen) about anything after the Australia tour. So I question his motivation, especially given by the end of the 5th test he should have reached the milestone of 500 wickets. A record that is unlikely to be broken for decades.

Finally, history isn't on his side. Taking  (recentish) England wicket takers with over 200 wickets and looking at their ages at their last tests...

Willis - 35

Caddick - 34

Gough - 32

Hoggard - 31

Harmison - 30

Flintoff - 31

Swann - 34

 

Also, am not sure if you heard the quiz question sky set on the day of Anderson's 35th Birthday? It was name the 7 other England players to play in a test match since 2000 who were 35 or older....

[kaosmark2]

5 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Agreed, and it'll be further highlighted by the return of Woakes! 

However, we'll keep (correctly in my mind) picking new batsmen until such time as one (or more) succeeds. 

I'm still confident Hameed will be a good test player - I might even be tempted were I a selector, to play him for 3 tests against the Windies if Jennings fails at OT. 

I completely believe Hameed is test quality, I just don't think it'd be doing him any favours to bring him back when he's completely out of form. 

[Wagon]

Well baring some 2nd Innings Miracle I'd say that's it for Jennings

I wonder who they'll pick over Stoneman this time haha

[kaosmark2]

Even with philander missing he falls cheaply having given two chances earlier. 

Jennings might come good in a few years if he sorts his defensive technique out, but clearly struggles against the swinging ball. 

[TheGayTent]

One of the journos on cricket writers on tv suggesting that Anderson will go on to the 2019 Ashes - with the motivation being retiring with the record of most test wickets by a seamer. 

That record is currently held by McGrath - whilst I find the notion an interesting one, I still can't see it. Even if Anderson remains fit and continues to be as successful as he's been for the last decade it's touch and go whether he'd overtake McGrath by September 2019. It's 80 wickets away. 

[mjsell]

just when Hameed was getting some crease time, today's weather arrives. 

[TheGayTent]

This is the worst possible prep for Oz....

I'd also forgotten, speaking of Oz, that BT Sport have the TV rights - their line up looks appalling. Suspect I'll be muting the TV and turning up TMS.

[kaosmark2]

Well that was the only test my cricket mates and I could've attended this summer, and we decided not to as we thought it'd be a bland easy game. Serves us right!

I've been surprised by Malan's temperament. I didn't see the point of bringing in a player with a first class average of 34 that's made his rep in T20, but that 2nd innings showed test match grit.

Whoever the selectors are considering for 3 in the Ashes has to play there next Test, and I don't think it should be Westley. Mason Crane had more impact than him and he was the 12th man!