Sunrise Celebration 2009, Somerset

[timespeedsup]

yep, it is. Rather than them over-paying for everything they go the other way and don't pay for everything; it's gone financially tits-up every year and some people have been left seriously out of pocket.

Edited February 28, 2009 by eFestivals

[dandreamweva]

yep, it is. Rather than them over-paying for everything they go the other way and don't pay for everything; it's gone financially tits-up every year and some people have been left seriously out of pocket.

Edited March 1, 2009 by dandreamweva

[eFestivals]

Yes, it's unfortunate that last year suffered from rain.

But is it a fact that it's gone financially tits-up each year? Yes it is. If the people involved don't wish to be associated with those financial failures then perhaps they should have chosen to not remain associated by using the same name.

While this year it might be being run by a Community Interest Company and that it has "100% of profits being put back into the events", what does that actually change? Not a lot - for dividends to be paid it first has to make a profit, something it's not done yet I believe, and profits can only be put back into an event if there's a profit made. And whether there's profits or not is dependent on what the company chooses to pay out at what level - for example, it's perfectly possible for a Community Interest Company to ensure it has no profits via the wages it chooses to pay its staff.

eFestivals wishes Sunrise success no more or less than it does every festival; without festivals being successful then eFestivals itself has no future. But similarly, if festivals aren't financially sustainable then festivals have no future - they need to ensure financial success no less than they succeed in being an enjoyment success for those attending.

[steveziggy101]

Yes, it's unfortunate that last year suffered from rain.

But is it a fact that it's gone financially tits-up each year? Yes it is. If the people involved don't wish to be associated with those financial failures then perhaps they should have chosen to not remain associated by using the same name.

While this year it might be being run by a Community Interest Company and that it has "100% of profits being put back into the events", what does that actually change? Not a lot - for dividends to be paid it first has to make a profit, something it's not done yet I believe, and profits can only be put back into an event if there's a profit made. And whether there's profits or not is dependent on what the company chooses to pay out at what level - for example, it's perfectly possible for a Community Interest Company to ensure it has no profits via the wages it chooses to pay its staff.

eFestivals wishes Sunrise success no more or less than it does every festival; without festivals being successful then eFestivals itself has no future. But similarly, if festivals aren't financially sustainable then festivals have no future - they need to ensure financial success no less than they succeed in being an enjoyment success for those attending.

[eFestivals]

never heard so much tosh.

not one word of what I've written above is "tosh". If you think it is, I challenge you to explicitly point out exactly what I've said is tosh.

[dandreamweva]

I guess it depends on what you mean by financially tits-up, and whether thats really important. Both of the first two years, everybody who came through the gates still had an amazing time, which is why people still come to it. I don't see that whether or not we made a profit is relevant to the punters enjoyment. This is particularly so last year when we most definitely did not make a profit but broke our backs to organise a second event at Big Chill so people had something to take away with them.

To put it into perspective, it took Glastonbury 24 years or so to break even. Where would the festival industry be without Glastonbury? Where would any of us be? The truth is that people persevered with it, because they saw in it a spirit that was greater than money and it rekindled an ancient desire to celebrate our summers in millions of people over the years. What a great thing to do. Thank f*ck that people persevered with it over that time.

I believe that its better to try and fall, than never try at all. Independent festivals like Sunrise should be encouraged and supported at every turn, because they carry with them a hope that there is purpose in life outside vacuous capitalist culture. They also demonstrate that you can make a vision work, though maybe you want to think before gambling people's money on it! God, we f*cked up the first couple of years financially, and we made ridiculous gambles with other people's money, but thats how you learn sometimes.

The fact is that the festival is continuing, everybody is still there supporting us, looking forward to the successful year they all deserve for their hard work in the past. Whether we make a profit this year is down to us managing the event well, and down to the heavens being on our side. I believe that we will and that it will be the best Sunrise yet.

Viva la revolucion.

Dan

[eFestivals]

I guess it depends on what you mean by financially tits-up, and whether thats really important.

to those people who lost out on money due to it going financially tits up, then I can't think that they'd see it as anything other than important.

To put it into perspective, it took Glastonbury 24 years or so to break even.

not true.

I believe that its better to try and fall, than never try at all.

agreed. However, the situation isn't just that with Sunrise, is it?

Independent festivals like Sunrise should be encouraged and supported at every turn, because they carry with them a hope that there is purpose in life outside vacuous capitalist culture.

while using capitalism to do it?

And having others pick up the tab for you in a very capitalist manner?

Is your take on capitalism that anyone who deals with you is prime for taking advantage of?

They also demonstrate that you can make a vision work, though maybe you want to think before gambling people's money on it! God, we f*cked up the first couple of years financially, and we made ridiculous gambles with other people's money, but thats how you learn sometimes.

I think most people would have learnt something after 3 financial failures - but probably something different to what you appear to have learnt.

[Guest Flip]

Yes, it's unfortunate that last year suffered from rain.

But is it a fact that it's gone financially tits-up each year? Yes it is. If the people involved don't wish to be associated with those financial failures then perhaps they should have chosen to not remain associated by using the same name.

While this year it might be being run by a Community Interest Company and that it has "100% of profits being put back into the events", what does that actually change? Not a lot - for dividends to be paid it first has to make a profit, something it's not done yet I believe, and profits can only be put back into an event if there's a profit made. And whether there's profits or not is dependent on what the company chooses to pay out at what level - for example, it's perfectly possible for a Community Interest Company to ensure it has no profits via the wages it chooses to pay its staff.

eFestivals wishes Sunrise success no more or less than it does every festival; without festivals being successful then eFestivals itself has no future. But similarly, if festivals aren't financially sustainable then festivals have no future - they need to ensure financial success no less than they succeed in being an enjoyment success for those attending.

[eFestivals]

First couple of years I hear were financial failures...but cultural successes in every way!! Its only the piss*d off you ever hear, sounding off about not being paid, the people who were paid never really shout it from the rooftops in the same way..the people I know who were trading have come to agreements about reduced pitches this year and are not piss*d off at all...they appreciate it was out of anyones control..

Last year was a direct result of an unprecidented weather event, the fact that all tickets were sold, all traders were poised and there was a 10-mile tailback on the 303 shows that if you take the weather out of the equation Sunrise 2008 was gonna be far from 'financially titsup'!

yes, last year did appear that it was going to be a financial success, but the reality (the reasons don't much matter) is that it yet again wasn't and people yet again lost money via their involvement with Sunrise. From what I've got to hear not all traders are as happy as you suggest. Their reduced-price pitches this year come with a reduced crowd as the festival is smaller.

Does the movement from a profit-based entity to a not-for-profit based entity change anything? Damn right it does, its a totally different ethos and the people have tied their colours to the mast and are doing it for the love...not the profit margin..

sorry, but you're failing to understand how CIC can be and are being misused. The fact that it's now being run as a CIC doesn't stop people taking any 'profits' out of the company to ensure that there's no profits to go back in.

I'm not suggesting that that is what Sunrise are planning to do, but I'm simply pointing out the truth about what a CIC actually is and how they can be used to financially benefit those controlling the company in the exact same way as any normal limited company.

[Guest Flip]

yes, last year did appear that it was going to be a financial success, but the reality (the reasons don't much matter) is that it yet again wasn't and people yet again lost money via their involvement with Sunrise. From what I've got to hear not all traders are as happy as you suggest. Their reduced-price pitches this year come with a reduced crowd as the festival is smaller.

[eFestivals]

I guess I take people on face value, if they say they are going to fight against the tide and put another festival on I believe them. If they say its community based and not for profit, again I believe them..

and there'd also be those who'd say "they promised us that they'd pay us and I believed them".

Edited March 2, 2009 by eFestivals

[Guest Flip]

and there'd also be those who'd say "they promised us that they'd pay us and I believed them".

[Dorset Mark]

Been following this debate with some interest, not made it to Sunrise before, been meaning to but various things always clashed. Got my ticket for this year though and really looking forward to it.

Now what gets me a bit is efestivals feature Sunrise, give it a pretty good write up (ok so maybe not your words, official line but hey you don't have to just use what your given) with NO MENTION at all of concerns which you are now making very plain here on the message Boards.

Just think if you have concerns over the management and ethics of a festival (which essentially is what you are saying you have) you should be upfront about this on the main body of your site rather than via message boards.

Otherwise keep up the great job guys, you've been a great source over the years

Mark

[eFestivals]

Been following this debate with some interest, not made it to Sunrise before, been meaning to but various things always clashed. Got my ticket for this year though and really looking forward to it.

Now what gets me a bit is efestivals feature Sunrise, give it a pretty good write up (ok so maybe not your words, official line but hey you don't have to just use what your given) with NO MENTION at all of concerns which you are now making very plain here on the message Boards.

Just think if you have concerns over the management and ethics of a festival (which essentially is what you are saying you have) you should be upfront about this on the main body of your site rather than via message boards.

Otherwise keep up the great job guys, you've been a great source over the years

Mark

issues like this are a difficult one - while we'd like people to be aware of all aspects, we also don't want to do things ourselves which might undermine what might otherwise be a successful festival.

With Sunrise we've looked into all the issues from all angles, and, as we're linking to an official ticket outlet which doesn't pass the money to Sunrise until after the festival has happened - which safeguards ticket buyers money from the possibility of another fail - we've chosen to continue to list it. If there wasn't that safeguard, I'm unsure what decision we might make (luckily we've not had to make that consideration).

There are some other festivals (not many, but some) which we've chosen not to list or have removed from the listings having once listed them because we have serious concerns about them and don't think it wise to promote them to our website users.

We don't think that there's any particular good reason why festival attendees should avoid Sunrise as they should a few others - if it's your bag, go for it. The worst that could happen if you buy your tickets via the link we have is that you might (just might!) be disappointed if the festival doesn't happen - and I'll make clear that we have no reason to think it won't happen.

In what's been raised recently here, it wasn't actually my intention to drag these aspects out again in any depth - my original post a few days ago was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek about just how 'old skool' it is. ..... While I've brought up it's financial problems previous to last year previously, I do recognise that last year's financial failure was something very different to the previous two festivals - if the weather god isn't on your side then there's really nothing that can be done. But as some might say, perhaps that weather was karma.

I did however think it was right to comment back on the posts that original tongue-in-cheek comment provoked.

As I say above, if Sunrise is your bag, go for it.

[Dorset Mark]

Thanks for that response and fair enough, you make a fair point.

Slight nervousness here now as have now paid my money, no acts announced yet etc

Dan, any idea when going to release details of (at least some) of line up, May is not far away now of course?

[Guest Flip]

I'm hoping that the silver lining behind last years natural disaster weather-wise will be a slight return to the numbers and size of the first Sunrise, hopefully 3DM, Tarantism, Dragonsfly, Seize the Day, Kilnaboy and other proper lovely folkie festie bands will be in attendance...along with the class of dance music we have experienced at Sunrise before...

Can't wait to see the new site as well, I wonder if the Woodhenge has been moved from the old site?

Think I read the Triban are there, lovely tent/stage and the Bimble perchance??

Getting excited now!!!

[Ringo_Spar]

I really should get my ticket organised now that I've bagged the time off work. Hands up if you think I will be scavenging about the secondary market two weeks before...

I have almost been organised so far this year!

[dandreamweva]

Bimble Inn and Triban will definitely be present at the event, as well as Chai Wallahs and Eartheart.

There is a new Dance and Chill area, Solarcadia with as good a line-up as we can muster. Sure it will please.

Flip, you've hit the nail on the head really. It will be about size of first event, though more compact, and a more shanty feeling with loads of glorious music and everything else we've come to know and love...

Thanks all for the support!

[dandreamweva]

Thanks for that response and fair enough, you make a fair point.

Slight nervousness here now as have now paid my money, no acts announced yet etc

Dan, any idea when going to release details of (at least some) of line up, May is not far away now of course?

[steveziggy101]

i knows its gonna be a ball!!

[Dorset Mark]

Hi Mark,

Genuinely no reason to be nervous. Its a bit of a process getting line-up sorted out, and we are behind schedule in comparison to previous years. But we kind of think thats okay too, as the reduced numbers mean there is less pressure, and more anticipation for those who have bought. We also think that Sunrise is more than about line-up, and its reassuring that so many have bought tickets without needing to know, trusting that it will be brimful of quality again. It will!

We would like to announce line-up all together, and we should be in a position to do that over next week or so at a push.

Yours,

Dan

Edited March 6, 2009 by Dorset Mark

[Guest Flip]

Cheers Dan, looking forward to it big time, to be honest line up definately not the main thing for me anyway, the one festy that I would really hate to miss (Ssssshh!) never release line up in advance apart from a couple of teasers, you don't know who's playing until you get there and they never let you down...its the overall vibe, atmosphere, party, whatever you want to call it....roll on end of May.

[Dorset Mark]

Hi Mark, good attitude!! I have never been able to get to Shhhh but I know loads of people who do and love it, it always clashes with summit, currently Solfest...

Anyway, if it means anything at all, the 2 Sunrise that have happened are definately in my top 5 ever festivals in 20 years of being addicted to em.. and last year was an emotional experience

(ex Dorset) Flip

[Ringo_Spar]

Ticket organised!

Are you shocked at my organisational skills these days Mr. Flip? I've turned over a new leaf! (Is the Swansea hippy headed to Somerset, by the way?)

(I suspect I need a car parking ticket. Can somebody confirm?

[Guest Flip]

Class mate!! ..the influence of a good woman eh..

I believe Will and Debs are sorted..

Ticket organised!

Are you shocked at my organisational skills these days Mr. Flip? I've turned over a new leaf! (Is the Swansea hippy headed to Somerset, by the way?)

(I suspect I need a car parking ticket. Can somebody confirm?