Debt Collection with Menace

[gratedenini]

I am in the same position again. Ive just spoken to a manager at a hotel I deal with, I have known the guy for over a decade, and he told me he has been suspended, the owner of the hotel is basically clueless, and believes he wont have to pay this manager if he is suspended the manager has told me the guy has no money, and owes thousands. He owes me just short of 4K, he doesnt reckon the hotel will trade much past the end of the month.

we cant take this hit.

I never did get the money (via the legal route) that I opened this thread about, the guy disappeared and we got zilch, minus the cost of the legal stuff.

I am seriously considering "getting the boys in". As well as being the jobs and livelihoods of all of our staff- its my future, and dads pension at stake here.

unless anyone else has any suggestions I havent thought of?

[markeee]

There's always risk when operating on credit/debt, I'd like to say dont give out credit or a system where they pay a month later or whatever, but that seems to be normal practice for businesses?

[lost]

probably wont help you on this occasion but you can get insurance against your customers defaulting. Ive got it along with jury duty insurance, liability insurance, IR35 insurance etc.. not sure how easy it is to claim as Ive never had to use any of them.

[t8yman]

So your going to hire some guys to smash his legs in ?

Get real...

Try to the sell the debt or man up, act like a business man, write it off and move on... FFS learn some lessons!

Be a good idea to add a prison sentence to you possibly losing your business...

[t8yman]

probably wont help you on this occasion but you can get insurance against your customers defaulting. Ive got it along with jury duty insurance, liability insurance, IR35 insurance etc.. not sure how easy it is to claim as Ive never had to use any of them.

[llcoolphil]

There are loads of reputable companies you can sell the debt to who behave in a legal fashion. If you want to sell the debt to someone who does nasty things then fine. Your a c**t for doing it though... and you think if this guys get his head kicked in your have washed your hands of it, think again...

[llcoolphil]

How long is a piece of string...

On average I would say you get 20-40%....

[t8yman]

I hope you are never in this position Barry, you seem to revel in being "matter of fact" about the situation.

I have spoken to loads of people who have said "just do it", and you can quite clearly see from the dates of the posts in this thread that this is something I have never wanted to do, and never felt comfortable with the methods these people employ, but being ripped off time and again can wear a man down you know. I still haven't decided what to do, but I can assure you whilst some of your comments have been noted and considered - your high and mighty approach hasn't been helpful in the slightest.

[llcoolphil]

Welcome to the world of Business van driver

[gratedenini]

I hope you are never in this position Barry, you seem to revel in being "matter of fact" about the situation.

I have spoken to loads of people who have said "just do it", and you can quite clearly see from the dates of the posts in this thread that this is something I have never wanted to do, and never felt comfortable with the methods these people employ, but being ripped off time and again can wear a man down you know. I still haven't decided what to do, but I can assure you whilst some of your comments have been noted and considered - your high and mighty approach hasn't been helpful in the slightest.

[eFestivals]

the answer is to never give credit, then no one can rip you off.

If you say "but I'll lose too much business", then you've already made the decision to take on the risk of being ripped off for that business - and so you should accept that getting ripped off is a sometimes-consequence, and live with it. It ain't nice I know, but it *IS* a consequence of your own choices.

[llcoolphil]

the answer is to never give credit, then no one can rip you off.

If you say "but I'll lose too much business", then you've already made the decision to take on the risk of being ripped off for that business - and so you should accept that getting ripped off is a sometimes-consequence, and live with it. It ain't nice I know, but it *IS* a consequence of your own choices.

[eFestivals]

To stay in business he has to offer credit. 'Live with it' doesn't really help him in this situation.

If he's prepared to offer credit - which is not something that anyone in business HAS TO do - then he should also be prepared for the consequences that come with it, which is some customers not paying off what they owe.

The whole point with credit is that it's not a guarantee that payment will be made to pay off that credit. After all, if the buyer had the money they'd have no need for credit in the first place.

'Live with it' might not help him right now, but he was quite happy to live with the idea that he'd be making profits off this non-payer, which is why he was happy to give credit. If he can't 'live with it', then ultimately he's been suckered by his own greed.

[worm]

Isn't all business run on credit and debit, whether that's being paid by an employer at the end of the month for your time, getting paid your invoice for your service and goods or getting the service or goods you paid for in advance.

Don't all accountants look at credit and debit, while matching it to monetary transactions. Isn't that the whole point.

Edited April 20, 2011 by worm

[worm]

If he's prepared to offer credit - which is not something that anyone in business HAS TO do - then he should also be prepared for the consequences that come with it, which is some customers not paying off what they owe.

The whole point with credit is that it's not a guarantee that payment will be made to pay off that credit. After all, if the buyer had the money they'd have no need for credit in the first place.

'Live with it' might not help him right now, but he was quite happy to live with the idea that he'd be making profits off this non-payer, which is why he was happy to give credit. If he can't 'live with it', then ultimately he's been suckered by his own greed.

Edited April 20, 2011 by worm

[llcoolphil]

If he's prepared to offer credit - which is not something that anyone in business HAS TO do

[eFestivals]

What a load of shite. As you've said in the past, resources aren't infinite. He has to knock out whatever he can whenever he can do it, especially with fluctations in supply and demand. You're just justifying the opportunist, venturer who sees a desperate business man with too much perishable over-stock and f**ks him over.

He's not on wall street gambling on stocks and shares, he's trying to be a f**king fruit seller!

I'm justifying no rip off merchants - but neither am I justifying his want of profits without consideration of the possible consequences.

If he doesn't wish to take the risk of being ripped off, then it's VERY simple not to. Only let customers have goods they've paid for.

The rip-off merchant can only rip him off if he gives them that opportunity. He gave them that opportunity, while his eyes were glazed over dreaming of profits.

[philipsteak]

I'm justifying no rip off merchants - but neither am I justifying his want of profits without consideration of the possible consequences.

If he doesn't wish to take the risk of being ripped off, then it's VERY simple not to. Only let customers have goods they've paid for.

The rip-off merchant can only rip him off if he gives them that opportunity. He gave them that opportunity, while his eyes were glazed over dreaming of profits.

[eFestivals]

Do you pay Scottie in advance or arrears?

a bit of both. But I'm also a person who he can trust 100%, not some random who's wondered in off the street.

[eFestivals]

Doubt he'd have many customers. When I managed a hotel if any of my regular suppliers had told me they needed payment upfront or on delivery I'd have found a different supplier. Not because we didn't have the money (we very much did) but because it was a lot easier to pay all my bills once a month.

I used to give credit, I suffered losses. Now I no longer give credit, and my turnover is higher, my losses are zero, and my hassle is reduced loads - to the point that I'm able to give my REAL customers cheaper prices than I otherwise would.

The simple fact is that not all credit customers turn out to be real customers. Anyone who offers credit should factor that fact into how they run their business, else they're mugging themselves.,

[eFestivals]

He has to knock out whatever he can whenever he can do it

... and take the risks that come with doing that as well.

The risk is non-payment. The possible pay-back is increased profits. If his eyes for one of those is greater than the other, this situation is where he finds himself.

It makes me laugh. People who want to justify the profits a businessman makes say "they're taking a risk". Yet when that risk hits home, they say it shouldn't be their risk.

[worm]

I'm justifying no rip off merchants - but neither am I justifying his want of profits without consideration of the possible consequences.

If he doesn't wish to take the risk of being ripped off, then it's VERY simple not to. Only let customers have goods they've paid for.

The rip-off merchant can only rip him off if he gives them that opportunity. He gave them that opportunity, while his eyes were glazed over dreaming of profits.

[worm]

... and take the risks that come with doing that as well.

The risk is non-payment. The possible pay-back is increased profits. If his eyes for one of those is greater than the other, this situation is where he finds himself.

It makes me laugh. People who want to justify the profits a businessman makes say "they're taking a risk". Yet when that risk hits home, they say it shouldn't be their risk.

[worm]

but what Neil is saying is far more valuable advice,

[eFestivals]

In the meantime, we still have a fruit seller trying to pick the bones out of a volatile environment. Any words of realistic advice rather than retrospective condemnation?

I've given my advice (and not 'condemnation' ) already - tho it's too late to help him out of the situation he's allowed himself to get into.

If anyone allows themselves into a situation without thinking thru or making allowances for the possible consequences, which is what he's allowed to happen here, then, really, who do they have to blame but themselves? That might sound harsh, but it's true all the same.

That doesn't mean that the non-payer doesn't have guilt for the non-payment, but it does mean that the seller has to carry the consequences for the situation he's allowed himself to get into. That's life; shit happens. You can lessen how much shit happens by properly managing the risk in the first place.