politics and issues

[no1_foxymama]

I wouldn't say it was the fault of parenting as an individual effect, its the whole network of how ideology works really. Its not just the set-up of what we would perceive as 'middle-class', heteronormative familial structures (which I totally agree with you, they're very much a product of Thatcherite Britain) but also the media, education and govermental structures which cause people to fall into a sense of things being 'natural' and 'right' (hence the general apathy for politics in the past 20 years - a supposedly stable economy = nothing to question of challenge).

I think places LIKE Glasto have to have their areas which encourage a sense of community, which questions the current (highly powerful) ideology, make people THINK about the position as consumers and the consumed. The problem is, it is very difficult to break into peoples consciousness with these issues (I spend a lot of time arguing with my mates about these things) but I do feel it is really important.

I do, however, see a few changes around my home town to do with levels of political activism. A couple of months ago there was a march for peace in the Palestine, a lot of local guest speakers, and I was very proud whe there was an amazing turn out for it. Totally didn't expect it at all. Then, like I say, a number of groups and fanzines have started to appear.

At the end of the day, the young can blame the old for their apathy and vice cersa, its whether you choose to do something about it, to stand up for what you believe is right, thats what makes the difference.

ANd don't even get me STARTED on feminism hahaha

[russycarps]

To be honest, all the lefty politics at Glastonbury annoys the hell out of me.

A tent full of socialists preaching (ranting) to the converted will not be missed by me.

[TalkShow Bob]

I like this idea. What could we do?

I'm 22 and my job is inherently political... as I was elected into a Student Union...

[bombfrog]

I bet you don't even know what socialism is

[beergut100]

Forget the exciting new music scene!!! I cant see it happening, there hasn't been a 'new' music scene since the explosion of the rave culture, and now thats died down somewhat! We will be having to listen to more and more Idie Roskers for decades, the bands of today just repeat what has been done before!

[no1_foxymama]

So, bomfrog, what pressing 'right-wing' issues would you wish to see being brought to a debate at Glasto? I am assuming you can recognise the differentiation between 'right' and 'left' politics here....but what new take would you express that the daily mail doesn't projectile vomit out of its behind on a daily basis? What new, unloaded depiction of the anxieties of modern politics for a national perspective do you think would be appropriate within the political ethos of Glastonbury? What issues that are you empassioned by when you learn about them, so much so that you wish to tell the world of the injustice of their marginalisation of them?

I am absolutely all ears

[beergut100]

I bet I do.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that a good political debate would be great at Glastonbury but I've been turned off it in the past because it all seemed decidedly one sided.

The tent was even called the "leftfield" tent

[bombfrog]

So, bomfrog, what pressing 'right-wing' issues would you wish to see being brought to a debate at Glasto? I am assuming you can recognise the differentiation between 'right' and 'left' politics here....but what new take would you express that the daily mail doesn't projectile vomit out of its behind on a daily basis? What new, unloaded depiction of the anxieties of modern politics for a national perspective do you think would be appropriate within the political ethos of Glastonbury? What issues that are you empassioned by when you learn about them, so much so that you wish to tell the world of the injustice of their marginalisation of them?

I am absolutely all ears

Edited March 18, 2009 by bombfrog

[bombfrog]

Are you a Tory?

[William of Walworth]

By advocating 'apoliticalness' at Glastonbury bombfrog is revealing his own politics fairly clearly ...

I'm disturbed and disappointed about Leftfield tent going, and I've posted so on at least one other earlier thread.

Are we definite yet that nothing remotely similar will replace it anywhere on site? I know they're relocating the Corporate Shite 'Lager' Tent to the old Leftfield corner, for whioch big but I can't seem to find out whether there might be some sort of replacement for Leftfield somewhere else on site?

All I can say is that I hope so.

The Greenfields are still excellent in places for picking up on campiagns, information, etc. but it's so much more dispersed and only-single-issue up there.

I'm a veteran from Glastonbury from the years when it was much more political all over site, when the whole hardcore festival counterculture was much more heavily present. Yes there were plenty of people even back in the day who were there for hedonism, partying, rave, drugs, etc. but the political profile has become much more diluted in recent times just as the countercutural element has become diluted. That probably been a reflection of a wider social trend towards apoliticalness and more apathy ... Are political folks like those of all ages posting in this thread so much more of a minority now? Maybe Leftfield was swimming against a wider tide towards the mainstream ....

I'm somewhat pessimisticly thinking that concentrating just on raising money for and awareness of charities, however worthwhile they are (and they are) isn't really a substitute for a Leftfield type space. It's going is a big loss IMO.

Edited March 18, 2009 by William of Walworth

[russycarps]

Well, your first mistake is to try to align anyone who doesn't consider themselves to be "left wing" with the daily mail. You're just showing your ignorance.

I consider myself to be a libertarian. I actually quite like capitalism, I think a lot of people do. I also think it would be foolish to get rid of our nuclear deterrent so couldn't agree with CND, and I wouldn't want a return to the trade union powers and strikes of the 70's and 80's, call me right wing if you will.....

At the same time I also believe in people having the personal freedom to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else and I think we should be making our best effort to stop climate change (although green campaigners always go about this the wrong way).

My opinions and my politics are complicated, just like most people's and to make everything into black/white left/right issue is just nonsense.

Anyway, a bit of healthy debate from both sides would be great, but I've only even seen very left-wing speakers/comedians invited.

[beergut100]

Well, your first mistake is to try to align anyone who doesn't consider themselves to be "left wing" with the daily mail. You're just showing your ignorance.

I consider myself to be a libertarian. I actually quite like capitalism, I think a lot of people do. I also think it would be foolish to get rid of our nuclear deterrent so couldn't agree with CND, and I wouldn't want a return to the trade union powers and strikes of the 70's and 80's, call me right wing if you will.....

At the same time I also believe in people having the personal freedom to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else and I think we should be making our best effort to stop climate change (although green campaigners always go about this the wrong way).

My opinions and my politics are complicated, just like most people's and to make everything into black/white left/right issue is just nonsense.

Anyway, a bit of healthy debate from both sides would be great, but I've only even seen very left-wing speakers/comedians invited.

[russycarps]

By advocating 'apoliticalness' at Glastonbury bombfrog is revealing his own politics fairly clearly ...

I'm disturbed and disappointed about Leftfield tent going, and I've posted so on at least one other earlier thread.

Are we definite yet that nothing remotely similar will replace it anywhere on site? I know they're relocating the Corporate Shite 'Lager' Tent to the old Leftfield corner, for whioch big but I can't seem to find out whether there might be some sort of replacement for Leftfield somewhere else on site?

All I can say is that I hope so.

The Greenfields are still excellent in places for picking up on campiagns, information, etc. but it's so much more dispersed and only-single-issue up there.

I'm a veteran from Glastonbury from the years when it was much more political all over site, when the whole hardcore festival counterculture was much more heavily present. Yes there were plenty of people even back in the day who were there for hedonism, partying, rave, drugs, etc. but the political profile has become much more diluted in recent times just as the countercutural element has become diluted. That probably been a reflection of a wider social trend towards apoliticalness and more apathy ... Are political folks like those of all ages posting in this thread so much more of a minority now? Maybe Leftfield was swimming against a wider tide towards the mainstream ....

I'm somewhat pessimisticly thinking that concentrating just on raising money for and awareness of charities, however worthwhile ey are (an hey are) isnlt rally a substitute for a Leftfuield type space. It's going is a big loss IMO.

[William of Walworth]

To be honest, all the lefty politics at Glastonbury annoys the hell out of me.

A tent full of socialists preaching (ranting) to the converted will not be missed by me.

Edited March 18, 2009 by William of Walworth

[no1_foxymama]

Congratulations on recognising the phillistines, dumbed-down representation of right-wing media outputs. I thought I might hurt your head with any other wider spectrum of ideology. I would say ignorance is a little harsh though

I was merely asking you what issues you would like 'right wing' speakers to speak about....because I am unable to see how they would fit in with the alternative political agenda that Glastonbury tends to support...I am all for equal debate, but I just don't see how it would fit, (allow me to make another sweeping generalisation here) given a number of issues are not tantamount to the protection of all (taxation, immigration, education....aren't they the buzz-words the likes of Cameron include on a daily basis?) and as the last Leftfield theme was against racism, I don't see how issues such as the 'immigration problem' could FIT positively into the political agenda.

I utterly agree with you on the fact that yes, the political belief of the individual is not balck and white...although I do notice you give no evidence for any issues you hold particularly close to my heart which doesn't fill my own aorta with my enthusiasm for your case sunshine

[no1_foxymama]

What good does this do for the country though?! Part of the problem with British politics today is that its all so f**king centralised, and I think those with both left and right wing political values would agree on the damage this is doing!

[William of Walworth]

Just seen bombfrog's other post.

He claims to be a libertarian, but everything else he posts proclaims himself to be a very focussed on very right wing ideas and ideals.

As such, he always was and very likely always will be much in the minority at Glastonbury. To which I say again, tough shit -- no-one's stopping him coming, no-one's 'banning' or 'censoring' him from holding those views, no-one's forcing him to go to leftie campaign tents or to listen to leftie ranter comedians**, Glastonbury is a big space with room for everyione, always was, but those in the right-minority politically at Glastonbury have to remember that in wider mainstream society they're much nearer to being in the majority, and that us lefties, anarchos, Trade Unionists. counterculturals feel very much more marginalised out and about in real life most of the time. (And even at Glastonbury now, there are fewer of us now it seems)

**Plenty of those mercilessly take the piss out of the stereotype of the 'leftie Glastogoer' and out of 'their own' politics anyway! And all the better for it.

So Glastonbury was throughout its history very much about offering a space and a platform where those out of the mainstream politically felt more at home, as well as just for hedonists and music fans. The political element is much more toned down and diluted nowadays, but get rid of the politics altogether, or insist on some sort of 'balance' whereby for every Trade Unionist you get a Tory and where the Telegraph as well as the Guardian sponsors the festival, and many more people new and old Glastogoers will feel disappointed and disoriented than will be happy.

A real libertarian would respect those festival realities.

Edited March 18, 2009 by William of Walworth

[micawber]

Congratulations on recognising the phillistines, dumbed-down representation of right-wing media outputs. I thought I might hurt your head with any other wider spectrum of ideology. I would say ignorance is a little harsh though

I was merely asking you what issues you would like 'right wing' speakers to speak about....because I am unable to see how they would fit in with the alternative political agenda that Glastonbury tends to support...I am all for equal debate, but I just don't see how it would fit, (allow me to make another sweeping generalisation here) given a number of issues are not tantamount to the protection of all (taxation, immigration, education....aren't they the buzz-words the likes of Cameron include on a daily basis?) and as the last Leftfield theme was against racism, I don't see how issues such as the 'immigration problem' could FIT positively into the political agenda.

I utterly agree with you on the fact that yes, the political belief of the individual is not balck and white...although I do notice you give no evidence for any issues you hold particularly close to my heart which doesn't fill my own aorta with my enthusiasm for your case sunshine

[bombfrog]

I think a lot of people are now realising the foolishness of capitalism. It only benefits a few at the very top.

I wonder if the millions and millions and millions of people living in poverty "quite like" capitalism.

[William of Walworth]

Can we maybe focus on the 'politics at Glastonbury specifically' element maybe bombfrog?

In that context, what do you think about my posts above re the history of Glastonbury and its political/campaigning traditions?

Edited March 18, 2009 by William of Walworth

[russycarps]

Why don't you just argue your case without all the vitriol and sarcasm. You would be much more effective. Bombfrog didn't ask for a right-field. You inferred that and put words into their mouth. I happen to agree with them. I'd like more open balanced discussion where people can share thoughts and ideas without being attacked for them.

[no1_foxymama]

I didn't say he did ask for a right-field...some people need to open their eyes a wee bit more in more ways than one....OOH sorry is that a bit too sarcastic for your taste squire?

I actually said that providing two sides to every argument is the best way to go with it, however I asked for examples of how a right-wing political agenda would fit into the causes promoted at Glastonbury, as I am unsure how they would work.

We lie in a world where right-wing political agendas are championed and internalised by the majority of society, where is the problem with concentrating on a few issues which are primarily sympathised with by left-wing political values?

I love how the first thing you and bombfrog have commented upon in each post is to do with my communication of beliefs now there is a killer political comeback technique! I feel like I'm on Question time

[bombfrog]

Can we maybe focus on the 'politics at Glastonbury specifically' element maybe bombfrog?

In that context, what do you think about my posts above re the history of Glastonbury and its political/campaigning traditions?

[russycarps]

Look, I know that there are lots of people on these forums with very left-wing politics so I'm not going to get involved in an argument about politics with all and sundry.

However, I would say that quality of life in this country is very high, even for those who we consider to be "poor" by our standards. Show me a single country that has lived under a socialist or communist government that has a higher standard of living if you can.

The trouble is, that because we are going through a recession at the moment, some will argue that we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of a perfectly good system that has served us well, when all we have to do is root out a few crooks and get the banks back on track.

LOL, erm, all the other countries that have nuclear weapons?

Even if you ignore the fact that more countries have been allowed to get hold of nuclear weapons and more will in the future, our old "enemies" would still be a threat if we didn't have a deterrent.

Only yesterday the BBC reported on Russia's plans to rebuild their military - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7947824.stm

Over the next 20 years there will be numerous clashes over shrinking resources (arctic oil for example) and not having the deterrent would basically mean a return to all out conventional warfare. Countries tend not to go to war with each other when they have nuclear weapons, that's why it's called a deterrent.

[micawber]

who is stopping you discussing your beliefs? you are absolutely allowed to hold and discuss whatever beliefs you have at glastonbury - I have witnessed many, many open debates at glastonbury.

What are your thoughts and ideas out of interest?