G20 protests likened to Glastonbury

[llcoolphil]

Don't forget the ambulance drivers and the BBC, they're all part of the conspiracy too don't you know

[The Klumpster]

However, I would say that taking an active part in mainstream politics rather than fringe politics is far more likely to produce results. The 600 or so people that sit in the house of commons every day are the people who can actually make a difference and they're only there because we put them there.

[ig1234]

Er, though I wouldn't completely agree with the above now in terms of the level of 'conspiracy'... it's not really a conspiracy when it's out in the open and overt.

[bombfrog]

I'm sorry but I just don't buy all this "it's us against them" crap.

[joshwarrr]

Phew

Edited April 3, 2009 by joshwarrr

[joshwarrr]

I'm sorry but I just don't buy all this "it's us against them" crap.

Edited April 3, 2009 by joshwarrr

[The Klumpster]

Er, though I wouldn't completely agree with the above now in terms of the level of 'conspiracy'... it's not really a conspiracy when it's out in the open and overt.

[William of Walworth]

Incidentally, do you not think it a litle strange that the first descripton of events you posted on here (that you got from the media) now appears to have virtually disappeared and a different set of facts has emerged. How, out of interest, would you explain that?

[bombfrog]

don't necessarily assume that what the mainstream initial reports tell you is reliable .

[William of Walworth]

I think you're failing to understand that there were several areas of protest and groups of protesters. I'm assuming the "nutjobs" you're talking about were outside the Bank of England, whereas the demonstration that this thread refers to, the Climate Camp outside the Climate Exchange was extremely different with no vandalism or violence until the police went against what they had agreed and stormed the camp at midnight (which was after your comment). So is any peaceful protester therefore a "nutjob"?

I think that it is quite ridiculous that so many people seem to honestly believe that the only people there were violent anarchists, because that's all they've seen in the press. The Climate Camp, until the police assault, had very much the festival atmosphere... lovely vegan food, good music and dancing, tents everywhere, fancy dress, giant snakes and ladders and questionable toilet facilities... it was absolutely amazing

[William of Walworth]

Double post

Edited April 3, 2009 by William of Walworth

[William of Walworth]

I don't, but we can only make judgements on teh facts we have available to us at the time and I'd much rather get those facts from a reputable news source than Urban75 or (especially) Indymedia!

Edited April 3, 2009 by William of Walworth

[joshwarrr]

Read what I posted properly. I pieced together my understanding of what happened NOT just from Urban/Indymedia, but also from quite a wide variety mainstream sources, eyewitnesses accounts, etc. Of course not everythig is reliable in the netosphere, I'm a historian by background who knows how to assess the believability of sources critically, but you can get a somewhat more complete and definitely a less onesided picture if you use both the mainstream media and other sources too -- as I indicated in my other post

The one thing that emerges fairly clearly about the reporting of that poor man's death, is that the BBC put up a VERY questionable and contentious version of events initially, then edited it later on when they realised that version was unsustainable.

[William of Walworth]

maybe this is something we should be looknig at the fact that someone has died, no matter how its not what the protests were about and it is sad.

maybe in time it will be revealed that someone was responsible, or it maybe the case was that he did collapse and it wasn't anything to do with the protests.

[joshwarrr]

You're right, there are various possibilities and a lot of unknowns so far

You're even more right that the protests themselves, what they were supposed to be about, related issues, etc., are what's really important.

IMO the tactics the Police used to contain the protests should be even more scrutinised. Checjk the YouTube link I posted above to their breakup of the Climate Camp. There's no justification!

[bombfrog]

[joshwarrr]

If you were lined up against a line of 20 policement with shields and trunceons then why would you try to fight them?

I have absolutely no sympathy for some of the people in that video.

[bombfrog]

you have got to be f**king joking. the climate change was a peaceful camp. i am not saying that everyone there was completely passive. i am sure some people did go out to cause trouble or provoke police. but they went over the top. nothing i saw in that video lead me to believe that the people deserved what they got.

[William of Walworth]

If you were lined up against a line of 20 policement with shields and trunceons then why would you try to fight them?

I have absolutely no sympathy for some of the people in that video.

Edited April 3, 2009 by William of Walworth

[joshwarrr]

The only people in that video getting hit are the ones on the front line who are trying to punch and kick the police.

The peaceful protesters (the vast majority of protesters I'm sure) are off camera not trying to fight the police.

[joshwarrr]

well said william, i wish i was there.

[William of Walworth]

i must admit i did not see any punching or kicking, i may have missed it, i hope i didn't and it wasn't there. but if you were in the front line and you got hit or pushed towards apliceman with a baton out i think you might try to push you were back which my look like kicking and punching too on lookers or police.

i truly hope that no one went to the climate change protest to casue trouble because violence is not the way to get what you want.

[William of Walworth]

well said william, i wish i was there.

Edited April 3, 2009 by William of Walworth

[joshwarrr]

I wish I had, I could well have got my head stoved in by the cops if I had though -- and I'm a completely non violent ptoestor.

When will oneeyed idiots like bombfrog get it into their heads that on some occasions, the Police are quite capable of provoking trouble -- either through idiotically counterproductive or unnecessarily forceful Policing, or even on occasion deliberately.

[bombfrog]

Having watched it again it does look more like flailing arms and "pushing back" against the police rather than punching and kicking. I probably assumed the worst having seen similar videos over the last few days of people actually fighting the police.

I still wouldn't want to be in the police's shoes on that day though and if I was lining up against them then I certainly wouldn't be pushing them back.