Police Murder/Manslaughter

[sifi]

I agree strudders. Assuming that there aren't any other reasons why he had a heart attack, anyhow. Innocent until proven guilty, hey.

[dorlomin]

The man may have already been experiancing a heart attack when the incident took place, this is one possible explanation for the low energy levels and lack of awareness he is showing in the video. A heart attack is not a cardiac arrest. You can experiance one for a prolonged time before the actual arrest.

Secondly what the police officer did was common assault, it was comitted in a highly inflamitory situation that the police are supposed to be calming not inflaming. It was stunningly unprofessional but from what I witnessed their that day, all too common.

Finaly their is both actus reus and mens rea, the officer clearly intended the action of the push and exectuted it. If that is deemed to have been a contributory factor in the subsiquent death then the officer should face charges. That other factors were involved does not excuse the officer.

It has been known for people to recieve murder convictions from pushes and single punches with little force in them as their was malice aforethought against the individual and the it contributed to the chain of events that led to a death.

[loosechange]

You'd have thought the protesters would have been savvy enough to take his number - it's basic in a conflict situation with Police officers, in case you need to make a claim against unfair treatment.

[dorlomin]

I agree strudders. Assuming that there aren't any other reasons why he had a heart attack, anyhow. Innocent until proven guilty, hey.

[dorlomin]

What if the officer wasn't wearing their shoulder flashes? It's basic in a conflict situation with Police officers, in case you need to make a claim against unfair treatment.

[sifi]

The officer is guilty of the assault until proven guilty true.... but the act of assault is part of a chain of events that lead to a death. This should be a murder or manslaughter investigation.

[Binky]

to me it looks like from the video that the police were moving to perhaps clear the street and he was walking very slowly almost in an effort to provoke a response but that said he had his back to them and could not see this clearly

however

all that thug plod had to do was have a word in his ear and get him to move along a bit quicker or got one of the dogs to assist him in speeding up

that huge shove was almost intented to knockl him down and the officer if indentified should be charged with abh

[Budweiser]

He seemed pissed and comming home from the pub, i dont think you can blame the policemen for the heartattack - But there was no point in pushing him to the ground like that, but in all fairness he seemed to be going in his pocket for something, and that could have been a knife so who knows.

[Cardboard Box City]

in all fairness he seemed to be going in his pocket for something, and that could have been a knife so who knows.

[Bezdad]

I'm disappointed to hear anyone on this site defending the actions of the Police Officer, but I'm not surprised. You are taught to defend and accept authority, however flawed and twisted.

I nearly had a raging argument with a very good friend of mine (who is a Conservative) the other night - some of the worst hooligans have a badge and a uniform

Edited April 8, 2009 by Bezdad

[strudders]

Absolutely agree with all but your first sentence. All that's happening at the minute is a knee-jerk reaction based on no firm evidence. My instinct is to side against the police, but without the full facts we're all guessing.

Edited April 8, 2009 by strudders

[t8yman]

whhaaaa...??

you're comparing some guy with an athlete who trains to be pushed, pulled, kicked, and everything else that rugby players are trained for...

If he caused the heart attack, then he caused his death. Why did the policeman whack his legs before he pushed him over? If he wanted the guy to get a move on, you'd have to be pretty stupid to hit his legs...

[oafc0000]

but I dont unreservedly believe the man was walking home from work minding his own business as reported by the guardian's video narrator.

[//ross]

And whilst the officer is clearly (based upon what we know) a little c**t, I find it hard to believe he caused the man's death, an average rugby player gets that kind of treatment 50 or 60 times during the course of a match.

[Goblinz]

The man may have already been experiancing a heart attack when the incident took place, this is one possible explanation for the low energy levels and lack of awareness he is showing in the video. A heart attack is not a cardiac arrest. You can experiance one for a prolonged time before the actual arrest.

[oafc0000]

but as someone mentioned earlier the polic could explain it away saying they suspected that he had a knife in his pocket.

[Radar]

As I say it depresses me that anyone is defending the police on this one. It also depresses me that the police may be able to worm their way out of any charges.

Then again I depress easily, especially when I'm bored and tired...

[Goblinz]

Lets face it... This isn't the first time the bastards have got away with killing people....Jean Charles de Meneze

[worm]

A speculation and prejudice thread. Class!

[-pogo-]

Even if the police guy didn't cause his death, he should still be sakced or at least harshly punished. Police acting like that leads to a lack of trust and then crime.

[Bezdad]

What evidence are we looking for here? Evidence he was being abusive? wielding and axe?

The facts are all plain to see, justice dictates innocent until proven guilty so yes in the eyes of the law the copper is innocent.

However, what is evident is the policeman pushed a member of the public, not at that point under arrest, caution or restraint and innocent, to the ground with his hands in his pockets.

It was not, if anything dangerous in the extreme as he may have face planted the concrete if he could not get hes hands out in time.

What ever the reason the policeman felt he needed to do that did not justify the means.

Heart attacks can be bought on by extreme stress, and that's what it looked like to me. I know I would be.

[ralph250]

It has been known for people to recieve murder convictions from pushes and single punches with little force in them as their was malice aforethought against the individual and the it contributed to the chain of events that led to a death.

[Radar]

A speculation and prejudice thread. Class!

[Ryu]

Even if the police guy didn't cause his death, he should still be sakced or at least harshly punished. Police acting like that leads to a lack of trust and then crime.

[ralph250]

The stress of this couldhave caused the heart attack though, then again so could years of alcohol abuse... Going to be very hard prooving anything other then assault, but as someone mentioned earlier the polic could explain it away saying they suspected that he had a knife in his pocket.