Police Murder/Manslaughter

[oafc0000]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7990188.stm

At least their is some justice out their to be had....

[-pogo-]

Do you think people trust the police anymore anyway? Or that another example of supposed police brutality that goes unpunished would make the situation any worse?

[oafc0000]

If people don't respect the police they won't realy respect the law would they? If police are held to account for their actions and this

[-pogo-]

I don't know about other people but I have a very high respect for the law and pretty much no respect for the police...

[oafc0000]

Yes but I am arguing that it may be possible that disrespect for the police then turns to disrespect for the law in some cases.

[dorlomin]

Peter Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said today that anyone on the streets during a protest could expect trouble. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "On a day like that, where there are some protesters who are quite clearly hell-bent on causing as much trouble as they can, there is inevitably going to be some physical confrontation. On that day, it was mercifully... a lot smaller than expected."

Asked whether he thought the assault on Mr Tomlinson was unprovoked, he said: "Sometimes it isn’t clear, as a police officer, who is a protester and who is not.

[Ryu]

They're (the police) just people, the same as you and me, in the end. There'll be dickheads like in any other line of business. There'll also be ones who are as helpful as you would hope them to be.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Ryu

[ralph250]

The aggression against Mr Tomlinson was not isolated and any other orginisation would be liable to charges of corperate manslaughter.

[ellal]

I have come away with the perception that the kettle is not a riot suppression tactic but a riot engineering one.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

They're (the police) just people, the same as you and me, in the end. There'll be dickheads like in any other line of business. There'll also be ones who are as helpful as you would hope them to be.

[Radar]

They're (the police) just people, the same as you and me, in the end. There'll be dickheads like in any other line of business. There'll also be ones who are as helpful as you would hope them to be.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

The Police are not the same as you or me TB! If we commit assault, we are prosecuted - they are given the legal right to assault peaceful protestors (or was every time a baton has ever been used illegal?!)

In addition it is my firm belief that there is a higher than average proportion of dickheads in the Police force because of the nature of the job - it attracts people who are interested in using force and coercion to maintain the status quo (as well I'm sure as *some* who go in for noble reasons)

I think some are excessively focusing on "some Officers are okay" in this thread, and forgetting what has been established by multiple inquiries and most protesters' personal experience - a lot of officers seem to have problems with diversity (whether of opinion or ethnicity).

[-pogo-]

But how can you qualify such a generalisation?

Edited April 8, 2009 by -pogo-

[dorlomin]

Channel 4 news with new footage.

Ugly

Very ugly

[oafc0000]

Just catching the back end of the report...

Confirmed he was just trying to get home... f**king bastards...

http://www.channel4.com/news/ Another video shows how out of order it was...

Edited April 8, 2009 by oafc0000

[lost]

and right on queue 10 people are arrested as part of a counter-terrorism operation obviously proving the police and government need more powers and should be able to murder the odd citizen or two for the greater good.

Edited April 8, 2009 by lost

[r0cky]

It has been known for people to recieve murder convictions from pushes and single punches with little force in them as their was malice aforethought against the individual and the it contributed to the chain of events that led to a death.

[William of Walworth]

I've read up on this extensively elsewhere.

There's an awful lot of half-informed speculation, especially earlier in the thread. There are claims in parts of the press that Mr Tomlinson was drunk, but I wonder whether those on here who seem to be tending to assume that's true, saw the statement to the Times from Barry Smith, his fellow Evening Standard seller, that he was definitely sober when he left the newsstand at around 7 pm?

Also, have people read ALL the information on the Guardian website -- they're the ones who ran the original video. That's the one taken by the investment banker (from New York) who was at the scene, the vid of Mr Tomlinson being first truncheoned on his legs and then pushed over with some force immediately after. The Channel 4 video is less clear generally but does make it clearer than the Guardian one that Mr Tomlinson was truncheoned as well as pushed.

Not sure whether both videos are still available on the Guardian and Channel 4 sites, I read an unconfirmed rumour that they'd been removed at the Independent Police Complaints Commission's request, but they should still be available on YouTube, and widely over the net ....

It's also worth reading the full text accounts (all of them) with all the witness statements on the Guardian's site -- there are a lot of them, with far fewer inconsistencies (and those minor) than there is general agreement that the Police treated Mr Tomlinson disproportionately. It really is well worth reading all the atory with the Guardian site as a starting point, it has the fullest and most detailed information, it's very easy if you're halfway smart to separate wittnessed fact from comment. Of course check other sources too, but lets put an end to speculative underinformed projections and interpretations eh?!

It is surely significant that the IPCC have now reversed their original decision to investigate this only by 'managing' the City of London Police's own investigation -- now, they will run their own investigation, fully independently or so they say.

The IPCC have also called for a complete new post mortem.

Be very cautions about Police-sourced press spin -- the Daily Mail and Sun are both running speculation today that Mr Tomlinson was drunk (and the Sun also highlighted the fact he was wearing a Millwall shirt etc.). Be very cautious about where such speculation is coming from, both papers have a very long track record over the years of recycling unattributed and off the record Police briefings.

Both papers and other sources like them will also be keen to keep emphasisng the so called thuggishness of the protestors -- the initial Police briefing last Wednesday that the medics, Police and ambulancemen who tended to Mr Tomlinson when he collapsed came under fire from a hail of bottles from protestors. This wildly exaggerated claim keeps getting repeated but the actual evidence for it is very scanty -- there exists contradictory evidence that the one or two protestors (no more!) who did throw empty plastic bottles were told in no uncertain terms to stop by other protestors on the scene, and at least two people who I know personally, and who were there, have posted testimony to that effect elsewhere.

I really haven't got time to follow this thread in detail, may not be able to be back for a while. I just ask that if you really want to know about and comment on all the angles to this story, read up in detail first and make suitable allowances/discounts for how some of the information out there may be dodgy.

[dorlomin]

Slightly OT but here is another video of the police in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXFMIbkKMMc

[Purple Monkey]

No excuse. I've seen the footage. The policeman in question hit a man walking away from him with hands in his pockets, from behind, with real undue force, while he was in his power armour. Such a f*cking coward.

All it takes is one power mad bully to ruin others good work, there must be so many in the police absolutely gutted and outraged just as much, if not moreso than some of the public. It's not fair to have a go at the entire police force though, in the same way it'd be unnacceptable to say all protesters incite riots.

It's such a shame that the likes of the police force attract pieces of shit like that into it's ranks.

Also notice how many run to the mans aid. Well done everyone!

Edited April 10, 2009 by Purple Monkey

[llcoolphil]

You'd have thought the protesters would have been savvy enough to take his number - it's basic in a conflict situation with Police officers, in case you need to make a claim against unfair treatment.

[llcoolphil]

while he was in his power armour.

[dorlomin]

Link to Craig Murrys blog.

Eddited to add.

Hers was not the only e-mail. Steven McManus, who says he is a barrister and a former special constable, was in Threadneedle Street on Wednesday. “At around 6pm I was outside the Royal Exchange chatting with some officers. I was between the officers and the protesers. The atmosphere was calm and non-confrontational. I shared a few jokes with one officer and was just generally chatting.

“A short while later the line began to move forward. The officers began to shout that we should all move back. I turned towards the crowd and began to move off in that direction. As I was walking away I was struck from behind by a baton and pushed forward towards the steps of Bank Underground.

“I was more than a little shocked at having been hit. The officer who had struck me was one I had been chatting to moments earlier, who knew about my City Police connection, and to whom I had my back turned. I remonstrated with the officer as to why he had hit me – his reply being: “F*** off, move back”. He said he could not help but be reminded of the manner of the attack on Tomlinson.

Edited April 10, 2009 by dorlomin

[llcoolphil]

I see the first one of the twelve has been released to the Border Agency today. Not a terrorist apparently. Shall we start a sweep on how many actually get convicted of terrorist offences? On a bad news day for the police - their poor performance over the Baby P affair has all but been ignored - it seems asians are, again, a suitable target for deflected criticism.

[dorlomin]

Link

For those following this, this is a very good example of how the 'kettle' creates flashpoints. The important bit is 3:20 minutes in.