Big Green Gathering 2009

[Medina]

As Organiser of the Stokes Bay Festival which is also next weekend we'll certainly do anything we can to help... just as I know the Endore-It-In-Dorset organisers are also offering to do.

For starters we can offer reduced price tickets to our own Festival for those seeking an alternative next weekend but I've also emailed the BGG info line to see if we can do more than that - similar maybe to the Big Chill / Sunrise link-up last year.

Stokes Bay is smaller than Big Green Gathering but just as relaxed. We also have a few old BGG favourites such as The Groovy Movie solar-powered cinema plus music from the likes of The Zutons; The Proclaimers; Seth Lakeman; The Saw Doctors and Adrian Edmondson.

We'll post details of cheap tickets etc. on the 'News' page of our own website http://www.stokesbayfestival.co.uk by teatime Monday but I hope I can speak to the BGG organisers before then so we can hopefully arrange something that helps them as much as it helps their audience and ourselves.

Having also had council problems I know how they must be feeling right now.

If other festival organisers can help one another, we should do so.

[fexis]

Struth, even though i wasnt going this year i feel really gutted and sad for everyone who was and all the organisers etc. All the blood sweat and tears not to mention time energy money all for nothing, it must be heart breaking but hopefully out of the ashes the phoenix will rise and everyone will bounce back in spirit and unity.

Having attended nearly all the other Big Greenies as a trader i must say i found the BGG very inspirational and brilliant gathering for spreading info and knowledge ideas etc on all things green and sustainable.

However, i did find the last one we attended in 2006 was getting alittle commercial but that could have been put right and only a teeny weeny grumble. It is afterall a difficult line to tread when your event expands and word spreads and more traders want to attend.

Hope something gets sorted for everyone.

In a way i am relieved we wasnt going because if we had been we would have put in and paid for a £2000+ order with Essential Foods plus spent days packing a bus and sorting stuff out and all the other behind the scenes stuff you have to organise like feeding hens and work related stuff and probably got half way down the M6 when we would have heard the news ..... I would have wanted to shoot some one until i had calmed down!!

[Flounder]

I spoke to one of the directors last night to see what we could come up with - they were going to have a meeting and sort out a press release, as there's a lot of mis-information being banded around the net and festivals being what they are, the whole thing is awash with rumours.

Endorse it has shared quite a few of the same punters as BGG in the past and we are looking at offering a reduced price ticket to those with BGG wristbands who will have missed out. The idea is that the transactions will be done on the gate, so people can check the weather and not have to commit themselves to more expenditure for a wet weekend - it also helps us keep the costs down, so we can pass that on to the punters.

BGG is now cancelled, but we will be looking at getting a group of festival organisers together ( possibly with the AFO - Association of Festival Organisers) once the season has finished, to look at the potential impact that this has on all festivals. Anyone wanting to be in on this, please PM me ( Medina I suspect that you'll be up for this) and we'll be in touch.

[Octave Doctor]

The single most important thing for BGG folks now to do is to figure out how to get our money back to us as quickly as possible. It would help if it came with a full explanation - there are lots of traders and goups of folk massively out of pocket now and they need to act quicky - regardless of any background reasons why this happened.

[fexis]

Afew yrs ago a Welsh Green Gathering was being organised and something not too disimilar happened - lots tkts sold etc etc and the evnt cancelled nr the last minute - these tkts were used for the BGG the following yr or refund given but in this case i thnk you have to not expect anything back and look at the worse case scenario and count yer blessings ie no one maimed or dead etc and then if you do recieve something back it will be a bonus.

From all the rumours and here say it looks like a BIG stitch up by the filth council etc but we'll see what news comes out.

[eFestivals]

Below is the latest BGG Press release (received @ 10:20am today). Take it however you will.

It seems that the BGG want to view what's happened as an anti-BGG conspiracy. However, many of the postings over at 'ukhippie' paint a very different picture - going back around six weeks - that the whole organisation and running of this festival this year was a shambles compared to previous years, and that the council and police were forced to take action to stop the event because it was that shambles.

Big Green Gathering Shut Down

“It’s political” Chief Superintendent tells BGG Director

Chief Superintendent Paul Richards admitted to a Big Green Gathering Director that the decision to shut down the Big Green Gathering was political and confirmed to the Chair of the Big Green Gathering that orders had come from the highest level.

During a meeting today between the police and directors of the Big Green Gathering, the superintendent said the decision to shut down the BGG was taken over a week ago, confirming the statement from the BGG lawyer that the ‘injunction was a red herring.’

Directors from the BGG are horrified at this partisan interpretation of licencing law. Big Green Gathering Chair Brig Oubridge said, “At the multi-agency meeting on Thursday 23rd July, we were still negotiating with the police and the council under the genuine belief that things were progressing and we were continuing to spend money on infrastructure, wages and security. If they knew they were going to cancel the event, we can only conclude that this drive to increase expenditure appears to be a deliberate attempt to bankrupt the Big Green Gathering.

The injunction served on the Big Green Gathering was primarily addressing the fact that the Big Green Gathering did not obtain the necessary road closure despite the fact that the Highways Agency had previously indicated that this would be done.

The Big Green Gathering has been running an event since 1994 and never before has public safety been an issue. The BGG has an exemplary record on health and safety and crime levels have always been low for the number of people on site.

Despite the concerns over the behaviour of the Council and the Police, event organisers will work with them to ensure the safety of those at the premises and ensure that they leave the land in an orderly fashion. Brig concluded, “We are very aware of our responsibilities to those already on the site and very sad for all those who were coming to enjoy one of the most peaceful festivals in the UK.”

Ends:

[Greenish]

cheers for that toast,where you going instead?there got to be a party somewhere,im gutted for evryone m8.

[eFestivals]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog...green-gathering

oh look, another "it was shut down cos the establishment see greens as a threat" article.

Perhaps there's a simpler explanation? Such as one where such 'greens' are a threat to no one cos they can't get organised enough over the running of their event to even get the tickets printed?

While, IMO, the amount of regulation required for festivals nowadays is completely over the top, it exists, and those that work their way thru that regulatory nightmare get to hold their festival. While the ins & outs of what's gone on with the BGG aren't yet clear, it does very much appear to be the case that everything that needed to be done to meet the regulatory requirements by the festival's organisers wasn't done in the required timescales, and that at least some other aspects of the organising for this year have been shambolic.

That different version of events to the one that BGG are putting out seems to0 be borne out by this thread at uk hippy and by this blog by an ex-BGG director - who both appear to be sources that wouldn't be slagging it off as any part of a police & council conspiracy.

[steveziggy101]

look at bgg website now

[dandreamweva]

Hey all,

Sorry to hear about BGG. Its quite a complex scenario and it would be good to listen to all sides, I reckon.

In the meantime, as written on the BGG website, we will be giving over a limited number of Sunrise 2010 tickets to BGG ticket holders, in an attempt to help them stay afloat through this.

The final number has not been agreed yet but we will put it on the website as soon as we know. We may also be able to offer a very limited number of ticket swaps to Sunrise: Off Grid.

www.sunrisecelebration.com

Its a shame we cannot do more to help, but we will do our best.

Yours,

Dan

[steveziggy101]

big up to you, dan and sunrise crew!!.2010 xchange sounds good to me.thanx.

[Paul ™]

Good news Dan and the Big Chill organisers for their offer too

Edited July 27, 2009 by Paul ™

[Octave Doctor]

I am already going to Big Chill and want my BGG money back ! I think its a little annoying to ask us to forgo asking for what is rightfully ours in the greater cause of maybe having the chance of another festival again next year! If I was looking to give this money ( over 180 quid ) to charity I could think of much more deserving causes

[SidmouthFolk]

My apologies for this mini-spam but I thought some of you might be interested (I won't bother you again - I promise!)

Nothing can replace the unique spirit of BBG, and we hope they'll be back to full strength next year, but if any of you are now stuck for something to do between July 31 and August 7 then how about a few days at a seaside folk festival in East Devon instead? Ticket prices for Sidmouth Folk Week start at £32 per day, with big reductions for young people. For more information and to book your tickets call 07807 084219, open from 9am Tuesday morning. Or visit our website to see the full programme of over 500 events to suit all tastes and ages. We’d love to see some of you there (and as anyone who has been before knows, there's masses of free entertainment and pub sessions going on all week too).

http://www.sidmouthfolkweek.co.uk

[eFestivals]

Its quite a complex scenario and it would be good to listen to all sides, I reckon.

I'm sure it is.

However, from listening, it seems VERY clear that BGG fell well short in meeting their regulatory obligations year after year after year (I've seen this as good as admitted by BGG people themselves), and that this year was going to be no different. Bearing that in mind, it's hardly a huge surprise that the authorities acted to revoke the licence - there will always become a point in those circumstances where they've had enough. On top of that, from BGG-involved people's comments, it seems that they had come to believe that falling short was acceptable.

And the BGG claim the actions to shut them down are 'unprecedented'. Yet funnily enough, we all happen to know of another festival in MDCs area that much the same happened with, where meeting its regulatory obligations year on year were ignored, until such time as the council said enough is enough. The only answer for that festival - Glastonbury (for those that haven't worked it out) - after having shown themselves as unable to meet the requirements from their internal team was to get in professional outsiders. Ultimately, they had to make the choice that if they wanted to continue with the festival, they had to do what was required of them.

The difference with what happened with Glastonbury compared to BGG is only with the timing of action taken against each fest. With the BGG, it seems that the authorities gave them the benefit of the doubt that they could get their act together, and only acted when it became clear that they couldn't; the BGG were offered chances not given to another festival.

I think the disorganisation at BGG this year is very clearly demonstrated by the fact that they didn't get around to getting their tickets printed. If they can't fulfil the simple tasks needed to put on a festival then god knows what state the more complex tasks were in.

[Guest Flip]

I'm still in shock about this! Can't quite believe that the authorities would do this...but then again, its the authorities!!

I feel so sad for all the organisers, people who had bought tickets, made plans, booked holidays, also the crew, traders and everyone involved. To the police, if you were gonna do this, why the f*ck didn't you do it earlier???

To all the festival organisers that have offered alternatives and help, BIG RESPECT!! This is how we keep important festivals like BGG alive hopefully!

No one knows the full story so repeatedly branding the organisers incompetent seems pointless at this juncture. Surely, BGG is an important festival in the UK season and needs saving!!!

[eFestivals]

I'm still in shock about this! Can't quite believe that the authorities would do this...but then again, its the authorities!!

I feel so sad for all the organisers, people who had bought tickets, made plans, booked holidays, also the crew, traders and everyone involved. To the police, if you were gonna do this, why the f*ck didn't you do it earlier???

To all the festival organisers that have offered alternatives and help, BIG RESPECT!! This is how we keep important festivals like BGG alive hopefully!

No one knows the full story so repeatedly branding the organisers incompetent seems pointless at this juncture. Surely, BGG is an important festival in the UK season and needs saving!!!

"No one knows the full story so repeatedly branding the organisers incompetent seems pointless at this juncture."...... but it's OK to blame it all on the police & council tho?

1. did BGG fail to put in its road closure requests on time? Yep. That's reason enough to revoke the licence.

2. was the organisation of BGG so shambolic this year that they didn't even get tickets printed? Yep. That seems a pretty clear indicator of how bad other aspects were likely to have been.

3. was this year's shambles known about and publicly stated quite a while ago by people with strong sympathies towards BGG? Yep. That seems a pretty clear indicator of how bad the organisation was.

While the authorities actions might have been at the extreme end of the options they could have taken (tho it might be the case that their hands were tied due to legal requirements and timescales over road closure orders - I'm not sure), it seems to be 100% clear that the licence requirements were not being met and so gave the authorities the right to act to have the licence revoked.

For any organisation to run a festival, the festival has to meet its requirements otherwise the licence can be revoked. This applies to each and every festival.

[Guest Flip]

"No one knows the full story so repeatedly branding the organisers incompetent seems pointless at this juncture."...... but it's OK to blame it all on the police & council tho?

[eFestivals]

Am I? I think you will find my point was around the lateness of their actions and the ramifications this has on people who have booked valuable holidays, spent valuable cash and expended effort and love into making this happen.

How can I be soley blaming the council and the old bill when I state what you quote above - NO-ONE KNOWS THE FULL STORY???????

Neil, you don't know the detail, you are surmising. Given your extensive experience in this field (pun intended) you maybe right mate...but then again, shock horror...you might be wrong...

BGG needs support, if they have been lacking in areas, fair enough, learn from it, mitigate against it and move on...

As I understand it, any 'lateness' about the authorities actions is entirely due to BGGs inaction. The authorities are only in a position to act to revoke a licence when it's beyond all doubt that the licence conditions are not going to be met - and so, for example, if the road closures haven't been requested within the timescale required so that those closures are able to be made, it's only at the point it's no longer possible to get those closures that the authorities are able to revoke the licence.

From what I've read (from BGG themselves I'm pretty sure, tho I may be getting confused now over the many sources I've read), BGG didn't make their road closure requests within the required timescale. So it's game over!

I've also read suggestions from BGG personnel that they've been permitted late applications previously with no consequence, and so they should have been allowed the same thing again. But that's much like saying "I didn't get arrested for robbery last time I robbed someone, so should be allowed to rob people forever" - from any legal sense (and with licences, it's all legal), that's foolish.

It's of course unfortunate that people can no longer attend the festival they were wanting to attend, and that it seems likely there won't be refunds for those that bought tickets. But any blame for that is squarely with those that didn't do what they should do ..... while it's not entirely clear whose fault that is, everything I've read (aside from what appear to be paranoid witterings from BGG) strongly indicate that the blame is fully with BGG.

Yes, I might be wrong here. But I've yet to read a single thing which suggests that I am.

I suggest that you read the postings on UK Hippy about BGG - and note the dates of what they're saying; I suggest that you read ex-BGG director Simon Judd's blog. These VERY strongly suggest that BGG was falling well short of what it was required to be doing.

Edited July 28, 2009 by eFestivals

[spooky]

... it seems likely there won't be refunds for those that bought tickets...

[eFestivals]

seetickets are issuing refunds if you went through them, we spoke to them this morning.

ahhh, sorry - I did mean for those who bought direct from BGG.

It's rather interesting here, that the advantage of buying thru an agent is made clear - people like to moan that agents offer nothing for their fees, but what they offer is purchase protection.

[Guest Flip]

http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/pdf/news685.pdf

Apols if this has already been posted, couldn't see it..

[Toast]

Well Ive spoken to the council and bgg. At first the council werent that helpful - ringing back and putting down the phone straight away.That said the woman rang again and gave me a number to call in order to see the minutes of meetings relating to the bgg closure.She gave me the bgg number from the site. Moanings aside the second time I rang, they were completely helpful (because I said the number I was given was rubbish?)put me through to the licensing department who sent me two links:

You will see that there were two licensing hearings held on 9 and 30 June and all documentation relating to these meetings, including the minutes, is available

Big Green Gathering Documents 9.6.09 http://www.mendip.gov.uk/CommitteeMeeting....SX9452-A782AD52

Big Green Gathering Documents 30.6.09 http://www.mendip.gov.uk/CommitteeMeeting....SX9452-A782D404

(This page includes the minutes for both meetings)

Spoke to bgg today. The woman told me it was almost completely the police. She also said that in order to get a refund for a credit/debit card, ring/see(cant remember which) your bank. And this is the juicy bit - you shouldnt have to give in your wristband, meaning you can still get money off another festival!

[eFestivals]

http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/pdf/news685.pdf

Apols if this has already been posted, couldn't see it..

The thing is, it's a wildly inaccurate and totally biased article (a long way from the more normal schnews standard) - this is 100% clear from it's contents, despite so little of the true facts being known.

"A last-minute injunction by Mendip District Council, supported by Avon and Somerset Police, put the ki-bosh on the entire event" - except that no injunction was got in the end. BGG realised, after taking legal advice, that an injunction would undoubtably be granted and so handed back their licence. An injunction would only be definitely granted if BGG hadn't fulfilled the licence conditions; they clearly hadn't fulfilled them.

"Every effort had been made by the gathering’s organisers to accommodate the increasingly niggling demands of police and licensing authorities." - except that seems to not be the ncase, because the right efforts hadn't gone into getting the necessary road closure orders.

"The last issue at stake was road closures. Mendip District Council had insisted on road closures as part of the licensing requirements. A festival organiser contacted the highways agency to process this fairly routine request. The decision was passed to junior management who reportedly came under intense pressure not to grant the closure. As the road closures were not secured, the council were

able to claim that the BGG was in breach of licence. A nice little legal stitch-up that according to one QC meant the BGG stood f**k-all chance of fi ghting the injunction." - what that doesn't mention is whether BGG had met the requirements for these road closures to be granted; there's more to it than simply putting in a request. As I understand it, BGG put their request too late to meet the standard requirements, meaning that the "junior management who reportedly came under intense pressure not to grant the closure" was probably being told to do his job to the standard rules, rules that BGG hadn't met.

There's a post in another thread on these forums (here: /index.php?showtopic=129168)">http://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/index.p...owtopic=129168) which mentions "When I heard the guy interviewed sunday night, he positively and consistently refused to answer questions about whether they had fulfilled the conditions of the licence and raised a number of what seemed red herrings.". If BGG have nothing to hide and it's really all an establishment stitch-up, why the avoidance of certain questions? Either BGG had fulfilled their licence requirements or they hadn't.

[eFestivals]

You will see that there were two licensing hearings held on 9 and 30 June and all documentation relating to these meetings, including the minutes, is available

those documents only state what BGG were required to do. They don't say if BGG did what they were required to do.

Spoke to bgg today. The woman told me it was almost completely the police. She also said that in order to get a refund for a credit/debit card, ring/see(cant remember which) your bank. And this is the juicy bit - you shouldnt have to give in your wristband, meaning you can still get money off another festival!

Oh wonderful! So not only do they screw up their own festival, they're encouraging their clientèle to defraud other festivals which have - out of kindness - offered recompense to people who were going to be losing out via BGGs cock-ups. Nice!!!

I wonder why there's that saying?: Never trust a hippy.

Edited July 28, 2009 by eFestivals