No announcement this week

[Lithium05]

I see the majority of my point went completely over your head, congratulations. The fact that 90% of the gigs I go to are in tiny venues on pub circuits in London means I know exactly what it takes to put on a 'good show' without the need for fancy pants pyro and lights, cheers very much. I find it utterly laughable that of all the immense bands and musicians out there that can pull off a stunning set and create genuine ambience without needing to resort to a flashy show, you've picked the Offspring as an example. I actually love some of their albums, but to cite them in that context is, quite frankly, embarrassing. Clearly, as you so patronisingly put it, you are the one that struggles with the concept of 'quality'.

[Mamba]

So you need explosions and some fancy lights to put on a good show?!.

[BobbyG]

Erm that wasn't my point. The point was nothing to do with ambience, it was the simple fact that The Offspring have enough top tunes to get through a set without having to dazzle anyone with pyrotechnics or fancy lighting, I'm not disputing that there are better musicians out there, but The Offspring are more of a fun/party band than a deadly serious artistic affair, and they do, what they do very well, and if you can't enjoy:

Bad Habit

All I Want

Come Out And Play

Hammerhead

A Million Miles Away

Walla Walla

Gone Away

Staring At The Sun

Gotta Get Away

Want You Bad

You're Gonna Go Far Kid

Hit That

Americana

Pretty Fly (for a White guy)

Half Truism

The Kids aren't Alright

(Can't get My) Head Around You

What Happened to You?

Self-Esteem

as a flawlessly, albeit flashlessly (yes now I'm inventing words) executed setlist, then why the f*ck were you even watching them?!

Edited May 20, 2009 by BobbyG

[thegremlin_1999]

i really enjoyed the download set but then again i'm a huge offspring fan and always have been (first cd i ever bought was smash, aged 12 in 1994).

they might not put on a fantastic "show" but you know what? the songs are fekking great, and i for one loved every second of it. isn't that what counts? cos i know everyone stood round me (somewhere halfway back, outside the D-Barrier) was loving it also and singing every last fekking word

sure, they were probably one place too high at download, but they're a great warmup band for someone else which is why them subbing at sonisphere would've been so much better than heaven and hell who dont play their most famous/well known songs (if we accept that they basically are sabbath)

[she bangs the drums]

Scuzz one hour Sonisphere special on now!

Thin Lizzy - Whiskey in the Jar

Airbourne - Diamond in the Rough

Alice in Chains - Them Bones

Anthrax - Safe Home

Machine Head - Aesthetics of Hate

Avenged Sevenfold - Beast and the Harlot

BFMV - Tears Don't Fall

NIN - Closer

Linkin Park - Faint

Metallica - One

Edited May 20, 2009 by she bangs the drums

[kaosmark2]

followed by down on the upside, and a selection of his audioslave and solo stuff. but NOTHING from the new album.

[worm]

And Temple of the Dog.

[voodooman]

Because they don't play any Sabbath songs.

[kipper64]

Your wrong about not doing Sabbath songs...Dio/Iommi/Butler have recorded 3 studio albums as Black Sabbath....their set will feature 3/4 of songs from those albums....they are now known as Heaven & Hell so that they are not obliged to play Ozzy era songs when doing live shows....a brave move really,considering they could have played it safe & legitamately used the Sabbath monicker...

[kaosmark2]

And Seasons.

[she bangs the drums]

Pretty much this, you are bang on the mark there. People are just spouting uninformed opinions for the sake of whining.

[biffoire]

Pretty much this, you are bang on the mark there. People are just spouting uninformed opinions for the sake of whining.

[kipper64]

I'm not! hence my quote bastardised version of Sabbath after having to listen from several people who actually saw both versions of Sabbath on many occasions (well the Dio format only once!) in the 70s/80s as I have been brought up.

I guess the arguing needs to stop now as whether people like or dislike the current version of Sabbath, the fact remains that they are playing and they will be second playing before Linkin Park on the Saturday night so nothing anyone says on here will change that.

So the people who love H & H enjoy, the rest of us will be either at the bar or the 2nd stage

Whatever happens or who plays I am going to go to Sonisphere and have a bloody good time though if Dio loses his voice a few days before Knebworth then I will be a happy man and be hoping for Rammstein or the Offspring to replace them.

[kaosmark2]

My comment wasnt aimed at you mate. In fact, yours was pretty much the only opinion which was actually formed on past experience and such and was therefore valid. Fair enough that you didnt like Dio era Sabbath/H&H.

My post was to those who said its not black sabbath - who didnt seem to be aware that they actually toured as sabbath and released albums and such so really it is sabbath - the only changed there name after to distance themselves from the ozzy years - which was a bold step, because whether people like Dio or not Black Sabbath was a commonly known band, and since renaming they have lost a lot of hype/known factor.

But like you said, some will enjoy some wont, cant win em all.

Rammstein would be amazing if they could get them though, I can agree to that

[Lithium05]

As I've said in another thread.... Zwan aren't the same band as the Smashing Pumpkins. Same as H&H aren't Black Sabbath.

And surely the bolded part is a key reason why they AREN'T a worthy 2nd headliner? If they've lost a lot of hype, but that former hype is the basis for their booking in that position, surely it's a bad booking?

And I love the idea of Rammstein being the last minute alternative to Heaven & Hell

[kipper64]

As I've said in another thread.... Zwan aren't the same band as the Smashing Pumpkins. Same as H&H aren't Black Sabbath.

And surely the bolded part is a key reason why they AREN'T a worthy 2nd headliner? If they've lost a lot of hype, but that former hype is the basis for their booking in that position, surely it's a bad booking?

And I love the idea of Rammstein being the last minute alternative to Heaven & Hell

[Lithium05]

But they headline festivals in Europe and such, and I'd say they deserve a High point, whether they are a worthy sub, well that remains to be seen., I guess we'll find out in August

[kipper64]

Aren't NOFX headlining a festival in Europe this year?! Would you consider them worthy second headliners? (I would, but then I f*cking love NOFX)

Point being European festivals exist on a different plain to those in this country. They're not as corperate and can't all afford the massive names as headliners

[BobbyG]

The guy who suggested that H&H is like Queen without Freddie is talking straight out of his arse. Regardless of whether YOU PERSONALLY LIKE THEM OR NOT, Dio was a direct replacement for Ozzy as soon as he left, the Heaven and Hell album that Sabbath released is widely and generally regarded as a phenomenal return to form and one of the best albums they ever did.

Queen got paul Rodgers involved over ten years after Freddie's death and released an album that was widely panned. It's not the same as Queen, and it's not the same as Velvet Revolver and it's not the same as Led Zep, the only equivalent I can think of off of the top of my head would be if Anthrax got Jon Bush back in the fold, it's that kinda deal.

Edited May 21, 2009 by BobbyG

[BobbyG]

This is what I've been saying! Except I used the hypothetical "If Iron Maiden dropped Bruce and rejoined with Blaze Bailey for a tour under the name "Virtual XI" and only played songs off of that and "The X-Factor" people wouldn't give a shit." The same applies to H&H. I am quite a dedicated metal fan, but I couldn't name any H&H songs.

Edited May 21, 2009 by BobbyG

[kaosmark2]

This is what I've been saying! Except I used the hypothetical "If Iron Maiden dropped Bruce and rejoined with Blaze Bailey for a tour under the name "Virtual XI" and only played songs off of that and "The X-Factor" people wouldn't give a shit." The same applies to H&H. I am quite a dedicated metal fan, but I couldn't name any H&H songs.

[kaosmark2]

NOFX would be awesome, and the fest I saw them Headlining, while it wasnt exactly big, it wasnt small either. Had the likes of In Flames, Twisted Sister, Dream Theater, ZZ Top at it, and loads of smaller bands.

I understand diferent audiences in different countries go for different bands though to suit the audience.

Personally I think the reason H&H are subbing is due to Metallica. Sicne they are curating the fest this year and in the years to come (although they wont be playing every year - just helping pick bands/organise it)

[BobbyG]

I used the hypothetical "If Iron Maiden dropped Bruce and rejoined with Blaze Bailey for a tour under the name "Virtual XI" and only played songs off of that and "The X-Factor" people wouldn't give a shit." The same applies to H&H.

[she bangs the drums]

The guy who suggested that H&H is like Queen without Freddie is talking straight out of his arse. Regardless of whether YOU PERSONALLY LIKE THEM OR NOT, Dio was a direct replacement for Ozzy as soon as he left, the Heaven and Hell album that Sabbath released is widely and generally regarded as a phenomenal return to form and one of the best albums they ever did.

Queen got paul Rodgers involved over ten years after Freddie's death and released an album that was widely panned. It's not the same as Queen, and it's not the same as Velvet Revolver and it's not the same as Led Zep, the only equivalent I can think of off of the top of my head would be if Anthrax got Jon Bush back in the fold, it's that kinda deal.

[BobbyG]

That would be me then!

I do stick by that by bringing in a new singer they destoyed the legacy of the band, I do not like it when bands change singers, for me Sabbath continuing without Ozzy is not right regardless of what state he was in at the time. Therefore as it is not the original line up and H & H are in effect a supergroup I don't like supergroups.

I love Sabbath with Ozzy, I have never got into Sabbath without him and I am like people above, I have been into metal for 20 years and I have never even listened to a Heaven & Hell song.