Beachdown Festival 2009

[cavey]

if you paid with a credit card your credit card company will refund.

[Medina]

Big Green Gathering, Bloom, Tidworth, Twilight, Falmouth Sound and now this one as well... an awful lot of festivals have been cancelled in the last month alone, often (but not always) blaming poor ticket sales for their demise.

Has the recession finally caught-up with the festival scene? Probably yes in several cases... but it's still worth noting that:

i) Many festivals have reported excellent ticket sales this summer - Reading, Leeds and Shrewsbury this coming weekend are all believed to have sold-out in advance

ii) Some of the festivals that have been cancelled would have been cancelled for various reasons whatever the financial climate

iii) Some 130 festivals were cancelled last year, before the recession really took hold.

Organising festivals is always a precarious business as Neil has said elsewhere on this thread.

Beachdown won't be the only one paying last year's bills from this year's advance ticket sales.

Many others that do that still manage to continue operating year-after-year-after-year.

But I do wonder whether Beachdown was ever really likely to take place? Maybe I should drive 50 miles along the coast today and see how much of the site infrastructure is already in place, or maybe someone in Brighton can tell us whether the site build was well-advanced or not?

As for the suggestion that some festival-goers may still have a party near Devils Dyke, if you do then make a point of visiting the nearby village of Fulking (yes, I have spelt it right) where you'll find one of the best village pubs anywhere in the U.K., somewhere good to drown your sorrows.

[eFestivals]

Doesn't that only apply if the original transaction took place less than 120 days ago?

Nope, I don't believe so, tho I could be wrong.

[kyjenni]

yes and yes.

[McShug]

We were due to work this weekend, there was a meeting for all volunteers last night but we couldn't go due to work commitments, I wonder if they were told then.

We had to pay £97.50 by cheque, we have contacted the bank and they have put a stop on the cheques, all we have to do is get our parking pass money back from Paypal.

Gutted as we had organised sitters, sorted all the camping kit, food & booze and booked holiday at work.

What to do now?

p.s. this is the second time this has happened to us, I think we will stick to attending and not working at festivals....

[eFestivals]

But I do wonder whether Beachdown was ever really likely to take place? Maybe I should drive 50 miles along the coast today and see how much of the site infrastructure is already in place, or maybe someone in Brighton can tell us whether the site build was well-advanced or not?

eFestivals had someone drive to the site yesterday to see what was happening after we'd been told by a very well placed source that the bands hadn't had their deposits paid, that important people involved in the running of the fest couldn't contact the organisers, and that the tents weren't going up.

We established via the person that drove past the site that the site was being built and that marquees were up (tho I don't have any knowledge beyond that brief info), as well as establishing that the fest organisers had spoken with people yesterday who they'd have surely been avoiding if things weere already too bad for their efforts to continue. So it made it difficult for us to use what we'd been told as what we checked didn't seem to match what we'd been told.

We know of someone that's been to the site this morning too, and they were told by the security that's on site that organiser Joe Pigeon had now dissappeared off the radar.

[Orb360]

Dear Beachdown Festival 2009 (No) Go-ers!!!

The Beachdown Festival 2009 has been cancelled at the last minute, however, Orb360 who were to operate as part of this year's festival, are still planning on operating this Saturday.

The rumour mill has been in full effect and the whisper is that many of the festival go-ers are planning on travelling to the site and having a festival of their own. The owners of the land are actively discouraging this, as the facilities are not fully in place to cater for this.

For people who would still like to come Orbing and Mountain Boarding on Saturday please call our office line on 08456 434 360 and consult our website for details: www.orb360.co.uk.

There might be no Rock n Roll on site this weekend, however, to get on a Roll please give us a call....

Much Love.

Orb360 Crew.

[Medina]

Thanks to Neil for his most recent and very informative post above.

I'm impressed at the effort made to check whether things were happening on site or not.

[TFA]

Sham about Beachdown the line up looked pretty good. Im going to go to this instead i reckon:

Chew The Fat! Presents…

Cheap Thrills Vs. Skint @ Audio, Brighton

Bank Holiday Sunday August 30th , 10pm - 4am

Line-Up:

Speakerjunk (Hervé & Trevor Loveys)

Kidda

High Rankin

Foamo

£10 advance tickets available from TicketWeb, Resident & Rounder Records / More on the door / 10pm - 4am

[kyjenni]

Sham about Beachdown the line up looked pretty good. Im going to go to this instead i reckon:

Chew The Fat! Presents…

Cheap Thrills Vs. Skint @ Audio, Brighton

Bank Holiday Sunday August 30th , 10pm - 4am

Line-Up:

Speakerjunk (Hervé & Trevor Loveys)

Kidda

High Rankin

Foamo

£10 advance tickets available from TicketWeb, Resident & Rounder Records / More on the door / 10pm - 4am

[5co77ie]

So another festival bites the dust! Neil - do you guys have a count going of the number of festivals cancelled this year so far and the reasons (or believed reasons!) why?

[llcoolphil]

TFA = Chew The Fat

I'm a regular Sherlock Holmes I am.

[Medina]

BBC TV South lunchtime news had a live report from the site showing marquees, toilets, roadway etc. all in place so the organisers had obviously hoped to go-ahead until very late in the day.

The problem for organisers can sometimes be one of cash-flow - artists and infrastructure suppliers increasingly want payment before the event starts yet the promoters often can't get hold of their ticket monies from agencies and box office outlets until after the event has finished.

If someone pulls out because they haven't been paid all that they want in advance then problems can very quickly escalate.

It's sad for all involved. Artists, suppliers, traders, organisers and many ticket-buyers are all likely to lose out.

That said, if anyone is looking for an alternative there's a free festival just 50 miles along the coast near Portsmouth this weekend - the Gosport Waterfront Festival - see their website for details: http://www.gosportfestival.org.uk/

It's not Beachdown, there's no formal campsite but it is free to get in and there's no danger of it being cancelled at short notice.

[Abensie]

I got my tickets through Ticketline and i cannot get through to them at all today. Does anyone know if these box offices will be refunding the tickets?? I am desperately skint at the moment and was actually trying to sell my tickets to make ends meet. If i don;t get the money it will be really harsh. I bought them with a debit card so no chance of insurance.

:-(

[Medina]

Box Office outlets like Ticketline should refund your tickets o.k.

Generally these booking agents retain all the ticket monies until after the festival has taken place... meaning you should get a refund if the festival does not take place.

You may not get your booking fee or postage back but at least if you get the face value of your ticket refunded that's something.

[Abensie]

Thanks Medina

It looks like Ticketline are waiting for something from the organisers though. They tweeted this recently...

"@dicko80 We are still waiting for info from Beachdown Orgs, we'll twt as sn as we know what's happening, some of us were going too y'know"

I'm assuming that just means they want official confiramtion that it is dead and buried rather than that they are waiting for monies to be given back to them?

[eFestivals]

Thanks Medina

It looks like Ticketline are waiting for something from the organisers though. They tweeted this recently...

"@dicko80 We are still waiting for info from Beachdown Orgs, we'll twt as sn as we know what's happening, some of us were going too y'know"

I'm assuming that just means they want official confiramtion that it is dead and buried rather than that they are waiting for monies to be given back to them?

I had a similar convo with See Tickets this morning, when contacting them to suggest they take tickets off sale. I suggested that they look at Beachdown's website for all the confirmation they need.

[BT Rich]

I think regulations will be implemented due to the amount of festivals going under and people not being offered refunds. If regulations are implemented where by all the ticket capital is held with an agent until the end of the festival it will see quite a few smaller festivals go under. Sad but I think this will happen to safeguard the public.

[eFestivals]

I think regulations will be implemented due to the amount of festivals going under and people not being offered refunds. If regulations are implemented where by all the ticket capital is held with an agent until the end of the festival it will see quite a few smaller festivals go under. Sad but I think this will happen to safeguard the public.

while I get where you're coming from, that's not really the issue.

Offered refunds or not, any business that doesn't provide the goods that they've taken money for is obliged by UK trading laws to provide a refund - this applies to festivals no less than it does to 'hard' goods.

The problem with these festivals failing to happen is that they're often simply not in the financial position to offer refunds, either because of fraudulent trading methods, financial incompetence, or genuine and legitimate expenses in trying to make the festival happen.

This really isn't any different to any other sorts of trading - for example, I could buy stuff from (say) Amazon.co.uk today, them take the money tomorrow, and them go bust the next day and not have my money to refund; it happens.

I don't think that anyone would seriously suggest that every business taking money for goods to be supplied at a later date should hold that money in escrow - the normal business world would collapse if every business had to work via this.

Why should festivals be specifically targetted and not other businesses operating in the exact same manner? I don't think that anyone could make a decent case for why this should happen.

Real and workable solutions already exist and operate. Buy from a reputable ticket agent whenever possible and not direct from a festival's box office. Yes, it will cost you a little extra with the agent's fees, but you get an extra and valuable service for that little extra - security.

If you're the type of person that whinges about the small extra amount of an agent's fees and go direct to a festival's own box office instead to save that few quid, fine - but realise that with that saving comes a risk of losing all your money. And if it happens then you don't really have the right to whinge too much.

There's no 100% guarantees for anything in life, and never can be - even an escrow company can go bust and take your money.

There's a very old saying that applies in the festivals marketplace no less than it does in all other marketplaces - "buyer beware".

And buyers can help themselves when it comes to festivals along with buying from a recognised agent - if it ain't listed on eFestivals, then you need to be asking why. eFestivals has a good record of either not listing what we've recognised as chancer-run festivals (and almost without exception our worries have been confirmed by time passing), and of not over-promoting those that we consider to be teetering on the edge (as was the case with Beachdown).

Unforunately tho we'll never be able to get things perfect with that, because we're not privvy to all of a festivals financial dealings, and because we're here to help festivals gain populatrity rather than just undermine any attempts to become established over and above the protection of our readers.

[Medina]

Neil speaks an awful lot of sense, as always.

Sorry if that sounds like I'm grovelling!

Problem is, as I've said elsewhere, more and more artists and suppliers are demanding money upfront from festival organisers (and that's hardly surprising when they lose out if festivals are cancelled) BUT most festivals don't get access to their ticket monies from ticket agencies and box office outlets until AFTER the festival has taken place.

That's so those agencies and box office outlets can refund money to purchasers if an event is cancelled.

Neil is absolutely right in saying, from a customer point-of-view, that if you've any doubt about an event actually happening, it makes sense to pay a few quid extra in commission fees to buy from a ticket agency or external box office outlet because you are more likely to get a refund if an event is cancelled.

But...

From a festival organiser point-of-view, many festivals rely on their audience buying direct from their own festival office in order to generate the cash required to pay deposits (and increasingly full fees) to artists and suppliers in advance so that the event can go-ahead.

It's a fine balancing act... and it's not helped when you get a situation like that which affected the Cambridge Folk Festival last year when even the ticket agency goes bust owing the festival some £600,000+ after the event.

Cambridge were lucky - the Festival is Council-run so the Council footed the bill to keep the Festival going - but there is scarcely another festival in the land that fortunate.

It's all a subject for ongoing debate, here and elsewhere, not least at the autumn gatherings of festival organisers, event professionals, suppliers and the like.

[eFestivals]

I recognise that the likes of what happened with Beachdown last year impacts on other fests, but fests that gain themselves a good reputation get to benefit via that good reputation - for example, the major ticket agents will hand over money in advance to festivals they can trust to happen, and contractors don't want money up front when they can trust a fest to pay them.

The problem with the likes of Beachdown is that it's tried to establish itself as a big fest without having the big finance behind it to do it. The only way it would have ever succeeded is by getting lucky.

Festivals being what they are, lots of people without the necessary knowledge and experience try to run them - for some reason (I blame Wayne's World ) people seem to think it's dead easy when it's not. Like any business it should have the investment in place beforehand to match its ambitions.

[BT Rich]

Neil is totally right and I can see where you point is.

[mumstar]

I think one of the big problems was the fact that they were charging £50 for a child ticket, we had planned to go and earlier in the year the kids tickets were cheap or free, but by the time we got round to getting the tickets they had started charging this astronomical amount for a kids ticket so we just decided not to bother. We have been going to the Big Chill for years and this year was the first time we had paid for our children and it was £4 each. Most people are broke at the moment, and lots of people enjoy taking their children to festivals but in this climate they won't pay when there are other festivals that allow children in for free or for very little. I think by charging this much for the kids tickets they have cut themselves off from a huge amount of potential festival goers, and when they are trying to establish a festival and a reputation that isn't a good move. I just feel so sorry for my brother and his wife who were all set to go this weekend but also soooo relieved that I decided not to go....

[erasmus]

I had a similar convo with See Tickets this morning, when contacting them to suggest they take tickets off sale. I suggested that they look at Beachdown's website for all the confirmation they need.

[CMC]

Why cannot the organisers confirm with ticketline the situation, re the cancellation? This does seem very poor indeed.