scottish fitba'

[Snufflebutt]

the quality will only be as good as the players we are producing. we are a feeder league, and i think we should focus on making it a better product just now.

how many teams are in switzerland? we have more than enough teams to have 2 leagues of 18. or whatever the best set up would be.

[ampersand]

so how would teams go bust in an 18 team league?

[Kowalski]

They're clearly not listening to the fans, I don't know anyone that wants a 10 team league. More than half the league will be involved in a relegation scrap. f**k that. A bigger league with more competitive games will put more bums on seats. Its not rocket science.

[Snufflebutt]

i'm not saying we'd turn into one of the best leagues in the world with a bigger league. it's just a much better format.

how is scottish football in pretty good shape? ged nixon just came out a week ago saying that there are plenty of clubs on the brink. but as long as the big boys are okay...

how would reforming scottish football and having bigger leagues make the quality of livingston much lower?

[Snufflebutt]

They're clearly not listening to the fans, I don't know anyone that wants a 10 team league. More than half the league will be involved in a relegation scrap. f**k that. A bigger league with more competitive games will put more bums on seats. Its not rocket science.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Snufflebutt

[ampersand]

they respect us and think we're good? like when our best teams were pumped out by artmedia and kaunas? and when our uefa cup hopefuls motherwell and hibs get punted out by teams i've never even heard of in the qualifiers?

it's not reforming the spl. well technically it is, but some of the 1st division will be brough into this. and they're talking of regionalising the lower leagues as well, so it's still reforming all of scottish football.

[Snufflebutt]

so how would teams go bust in an 18 team league?

[ampersand]

Less money, spread more thinly! More boring mid-table games being watched by less people (see worse attendences of Scottish football in times gone past) I reckon Sky might not want to pay more for a league just because its got Clyde in it, why woud they?

[Snufflebutt]

they respect us and think we're good? like when our best teams were pumped out by artmedia and kaunas? and when our uefa cup hopefuls motherwell and hibs get punted out by teams i've never even heard of in the qualifiers?

it's not reforming the spl. well technically it is, but some of the 1st division will be brough into this. and they're talking of regionalising the lower leagues as well, so it's still reforming all of scottish football.

[ampersand]

yeah, they don't care about us. they hardly respect us. we're insignificant, unless we've a team in the group stages of the champions leauge.

[Snufflebutt]

yeah, they don't care about us. they hardly respect us. we're insignificant, unless we've a team in the group stages of the champions leauge.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Snufflebutt

[ampersand]

but what did the romanian know about rangers? it's like some czech visiting and me saying 'ah, dukla prague'. i know the team but i have no idea what players they have, how they're doing etc.

having a knowledge of the a countries big teams doesn't show respect. the reason we talk it down is because we know the most about it.

Edited December 16, 2010 by ampersand

[Kowalski]

Wrong, attendances have gone up since the number of teams in the premier league was reduced decades ago (the Golden Age of Scottish Football ha) A bigger league will result in less competitive games - more midtable games between clubs treading water are boring. The Top 6 thing actually is good - you get teams aiming for a top 6 place. And relegation scraps are good entertainment - and more interesting for the casual viewer to watch than 13th vs 7th

[Snufflebutt]

but what did the romanian know about rangers? it's like some czech visiting and me saying 'ah, dukla prague'. i know the team but i have no idea what players they have, how they're doing etc.

having a knowledge of the a countries big teams doesn't show respect. the reason we talk it down is because we know the most about it.

[ampersand]

and regarding relegation scraps. surely a play-off set up with a showpiece at hampden would be more exciting?

[ampersand]

i'm not delusional about where we should be. i want restructure to make it a more exciting 'product', not to make us rich with tv deals and have us competing in europe.

even with my own club, i know that we're a first division regular and anything above that should be dreamland.

[Snufflebutt]

Have you got evidence for that? When grounds had no seats, the likes of Pittodrie were getting three times the capacity of the current stadium, and that's well before the 1980s.

[ampersand]

well i'm sorry if i'm sceptical of those numbers. scottish cup final 1967. celtic v aberdeen. attendance of 126,102.

[Snufflebutt]

well i'm sorry if i'm sceptical of those numbers. scottish cup final 1967. celtic v aberdeen. attendance of 126,102.

[ampersand]

Can't account for the disparity , maybe the cup final was much more of an event.

Got the scottish football archive fact here. Says that in 4 of the 7 seasons after a league reconstruction attendences have dropped, worth bearing in mind I think.

[Kowalski]

Lowest average attendence in the postwar period for a season was 8000 the season Celtic won their 9th title in a row - scottish football archive.

Attendences in season Cetic won the European Cup

Rangers - 34,980

Celtic - 31,373

HIbernian - 11,475

Hearts - 11,136

Aberdeen - 10,056

Dunfermline - 7,329

Dundee Utd - 6,268

Kilmarnock - 5,694

Attendences last season

Celtic - 50,435

Rangers - 47,145

Hearts - 14,389

Hibernian - 12,800

Aberdeen - 11,423

Dundee Utd -7,604

Dunfermline - 6,106 (season 06/07)

Kilmarnock - 5,727

Shamelessly copied from someone on another forum. The league had 18 teams in 1966/67.

[Snufflebutt]

yeah i'm not saying the facts are wrong, but the interest in football was greater there. the european cup attendances for that season had it up at 70 odd thousand and the league cup final v partick was 90000.

it might take time, but if the reconstruction was kept for two decades and worked, it would be worth the initial drop. but that's all guesswork and speculation

Edited December 16, 2010 by Snufflebutt

[Snufflebutt]

Highly sceptical of these figures. They don't match what's here. But let's not let any facts get in the way.

[ampersand]

it's daft to compare figures from the 60's to the 00's anyway cos it's two different worlds we live in. both the real one and the football one.

i'd like to see the official figures of the 67 season though cos i highly doubt that the greatest team celtic has ever put out was averaging 30,000. especially when the european and cup final attendances were vastly higher. league cup too.

[ampersand]

Should of said the average of last season was posted in March. Its not the end of season figures.

And everything on wikipedia is factually accurate, obviously