Problems at work

[TheGayTent]

Get Cass, Bill, or Swallow to have a quiet word...

[Lithium05]

THE PLOT THICKENS!

Basically after the aforementioned meeting the verdict was "final warning" so next time I don't meet my target I'm gone. I was told that no one else doing the same job as me has a problem meeting their targets, so I took it upon myself to ask the woman who does the same job as me how she does it.

This lead to her emailing me basically saying she doesn't, and that she's also in the shit over it and they lead her to believe, like they've done with me, that she was the only one having these problems.

We went for lunch together yesterday and she told me some very interesting things such as:

- The woman who extrapolates the data from our output, who has been with the company 20+ years has acknowledged that we deal with a tougher set of data than our colleagues and has been telling our superiors that it's nonsense to hold us to the same standard as everyone else - this falls on deaf ears though.

- She (the woman I went to lunch with) has been printing off the figures for a couple of months and has taken them to a lawyer who has informed her that the data does indeed show that we are treated differently to the others and seems to show contstructive dismissal on the part of the company.

There were some other things too but without knowing the details of the job they wouldn't make alot of sense. Essentially, when the current work dries up and the figures drop again (I've been helped out the last couple of weeks by covering people on holiday's work to meet my target) which they will. I will have some serious support in my corner, because it seems my conspiracy theory is correct and they are indeed trying to get rid of us.

However. I am suddenly getting job offers from elsewhere thanks to the agency I registered at, but I don't want to abandon my ally in the midst of all this.

Advice?

[jump]

Good on you for wanting to look out for your ally but just get out of there, don't rush into the 1st job you get but even if they don't fire you would you want to work under people who pissed on you like that.

Tell matey that if she needs to talk about the job you're happy to and if it goes to tribunal you'd be happy give evidence, but ultimately she is gonna want to leave too and should looking for a way out, no?

[Lithium05]

Yeah, but if I stand to gain some sort of compensation for being (for all intents and purposes) forced out of the company surely I should stick around, knowing the nature of the people I'm dealing with I know the "showdown" is just around the corner, and I also know for certain now that, in the eyes of the law, I'm in the right. Now I'm not saying that I'm going to try and get sacked, but I know it's inevitable because that's what I'm being set up for! If it hasn't happened by the end of the month if be surprised. It would mean they've changed their mind, in which case I will f*ck off anyway.

[jump]

That's upto you, personally my mentality is to tell them to f**k off and get more money & a better job elsewhere.

The only thing with getting comp is you have to prove damages (I think?), ie you were out of work for this long and suffer depression due to it blah blah blah and it may take a few years till it's finally over and done with appeals, courts etc and at the end it may only be a few hundreds.

[oafc0000]

Yeah, but if I stand to gain some sort of compensation for being (for all intents and purposes) forced out of the company surely I should stick around, knowing the nature of the people I'm dealing with I know the "showdown" is just around the corner, and I also know for certain now that, in the eyes of the law, I'm in the right. Now I'm not saying that I'm going to try and get sacked, but I know it's inevitable because that's what I'm being set up for! If it hasn't happened by the end of the month if be surprised. It would mean they've changed their mind, in which case I will f*ck off anyway.

[RABun]

I might be wrong but i think you can still sue for constructive dismissal if you leave before you get fired.

[oafc0000]

I might be wrong but i think you can still sue for constructive dismissal if you leave before you get fired.

[jump]

But he isn't hitting the targets others are... IF that is true there is no constructive dismissal case to answer... Its very hard to prove and win...

[Lithium05]

But as I said, my colleague in the same position has already presented a few months worth of figures proving we are put in a different position to those meeting their targets (in terms of workload) to a lawyer who said if they do sack us there would be definately ground for constructive dismissal.

[eFestivals]

Yeah, but if I stand to gain some sort of compensation for being (for all intents and purposes) forced out of the company surely I should stick around, knowing the nature of the people I'm dealing with I know the "showdown" is just around the corner, and I also know for certain now that, in the eyes of the law, I'm in the right. Now I'm not saying that I'm going to try and get sacked, but I know it's inevitable because that's what I'm being set up for! If it hasn't happened by the end of the month if be surprised. It would mean they've changed their mind, in which case I will f*ck off anyway.

While you might pick up some cash - eventually - there's all sorts of reasons why it would be better to jump ship before you're pushed.

Until such time as you get to a tribunal and win, you'll not have that compensation which you might get - even if you win they might not pay up, there's all sorts of things they can do to avoid paying (as the history of tribunal judgements gets to prove).

And in the meantime, to any potential new employer, you're someone that's just been sacked. You might explain to them that you're taking things to a tribunal and that you're sure you'll win, but they'll only have your word on that.

And further, nearly all employers will be naturally hesitant about taking on anyone who has been thru or is going thru a tribunal. From one angle it suggests you might be a trouble-maker of some sort, while from another it says you know your rights and will stand up for them, which might cause difficulties for that new employer (and certainly costs for them) if they get into a position where they need to lay off their staff.

While 'right' might be on your side, sometimes being pragmatic is the better way to go from a personal point of view. I suggest that this is very definitely one of those times.

[Lithium05]

Cheers chaps, that's given me a fair bit to think about. Got an interview coming up apparently (got a voicemail from an agency) so now I need to somehow summon the enthusiasm for work I once had and take it with me to the interview (gonna be tricky, this whole experience has left me pretty bitter and twisted about work in general)

[oafc0000]

Good luck if you want to fight it... My gut feeling is its not worth bothering with... Good luck...

[Lithium05]

I have an interview on Friday. Short notice considering I've been told very little about the role I'm going for, or indeed the name of the company it's with

[oafc0000]

I have an interview on Friday. Short notice considering I've been told very little about the role I'm going for, or indeed the name of the company it's with

[Lithium05]

The details are being emailed to me this afternoon. Obviously if they weren't I would be asking! Still, I think it's one of those jobs where the title isn't exactly descriptive and contains some company specific jargan. That said I believe the role to be of an IT administrative nature.

[feral chile]

The details are being emailed to me this afternoon. Obviously if they weren't I would be asking! Still, I think it's one of those jobs where the title isn't exactly descriptive and contains some company specific jargan. That said I believe the role to be of an IT administrative nature.

[markeee]

The details are being emailed to me this afternoon. Obviously if they weren't I would be asking! Still, I think it's one of those jobs where the title isn't exactly descriptive and contains some company specific jargan. That said I believe the role to be of an IT administrative nature.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Good luck if you want to fight it... My gut feeling is its not worth bothering with... Good luck...

[oafc0000]

+1

Slightly of topic, and not a direct attack but what is your view on Unions in work Oaf??

I have read some of your other posts when people have been having employment issues and you do seem weel read (and the advice sound). As an employer (self employed) would you prefer a unionised work force?

Edited August 7, 2010 by oafc0000

[t8yman]

This is a tricky one, because whilst the advice above may be helpful, if you leave whilst the subject of a diciplinary procedure - this could be recorded and possibly be used in a future reference. Many companies only provide very very vague references due to data protection issues and legality, however some companies request information such as "was the canditate involved in any formal disciplinary matters in the last 2 years".

your ally has some good groundwork to draw from, and your union rep should be able to give you better guidance than a load of herberts on the internet.

one other thing to note - many big companies dont even bother to fight tribunal claims - my best mate works for a large public transport company, and he said they know its gonna be 12k+ to fight, so they offer something like £7k for you to f**k off and leave them alone.

as I said - ask your union rep.

[Lithium05]

For f*ck sake.

Ok first of all I didn't get the job I went for in the interview, not too bothered about that though.

As I'm sure i've said before, in the most basic possible terms, my weekly target is 4000, usually I'm not given enough work to achieve this target, hence being in the shit. I have asked to be trained in other areas so I can pick up work not assigned to me. One of those training sessions was Friday afternoon. I already had a half day Friday and this training session was an hour and a half. Because we finish at 4 on Fridays that meant I was only in and working for about 50 minutes. My manager was made aware that this is what I was doing and achknowledged it.

Now. Take into consideration that 4000 divided by 5 is 800, so that means I should be processing an average of 800 a day. Per hour that is roughly 106. So, with everything taken into consideration my targe last week should have been 3306. I managed 3382. I have been requested to attend a disciplinary meeting this Thursday.

This is bullshit.

:angry:

[eFestivals]

For f*ck sake.

Ok first of all I didn't get the job I went for in the interview, not too bothered about that though.

As I'm sure i've said before, in the most basic possible terms, my weekly target is 4000, usually I'm not given enough work to achieve this target, hence being in the shit. I have asked to be trained in other areas so I can pick up work not assigned to me. One of those training sessions was Friday afternoon. I already had a half day Friday and this training session was an hour and a half. Because we finish at 4 on Fridays that meant I was only in and working for about 50 minutes. My manager was made aware that this is what I was doing and achknowledged it.

Now. Take into consideration that 4000 divided by 5 is 800, so that means I should be processing an average of 800 a day. Per hour that is roughly 106. So, with everything taken into consideration my targe last week should have been 3306. I managed 3382. I have been requested to attend a disciplinary meeting this Thursday.

This is bullshit.

:angry:

Take all of this info with you. If they are being reasonable then they'll accept it. Non-acceptance will be ample proof for any tribunal of their unreasonable expectations.

Sit and take notes while you're at the meeting. Tell them that you're taking notes to ensure that what they say is being properly recorded, and (some added bullshit to make them happier about you note taking) to ensure that you're able to remember their exact requirements of you.

They should be smart enough to realise that if they make unreasonable demands of you it's all on record and will come back and bite them on the arse, so it's possible that this approach will see them back off.

Having said all of that, do bear in mind your full situation, and that note taking might make things worse. While it sounds very much as tho 'right' is on your side, being 'right' doesn't pay the rent. Be pragmatic, for your own sake.

[jump]

Having said all of that, do bear in mind your full situation, and that note taking might make things worse. While it sounds very much as tho 'right' is on your side, being 'right' doesn't pay the rent. Be pragmatic, for your own sake.

[eFestivals]

If it's a disciplinary then he may not need to take notes as they are meant to give you a formal letter afterwards with a sum up of what was said if memory serves me right.

Yep, they should do. But I once went thru something like that, and what was in the letter was 100% different to what was said in the meeting*.

Face to face, people like this can often bottle saying what they need to be saying, and then cover up their lack of bottle via the letter. If you have your own version that's been written as the words have been said then it's unlikely they'd stitch up the person via a letter that says something different.

(* I was told in a meeting I was being made immediately redundant due to business downturn, and that I'd be given a letter confirming this in a few minutes, when I was about to leave the building. I didn't open the letter until I got home, but was shocked to discover it saying "your contract has been terminated due to poor performance" [which was complete bollox]. I'm guessing that the letter was written as it was to cover their arses from a legal point of view. I was livid, and a part of me wanted to follow it up and have the letter stuck from my work history there ... but they were a bunch of arseholes, the very worst employer I've ever had, and [aside from the new mortgage I'd just taken on] I was deliriously happy to no longer be working there, and as I was going to go self-employed I decided to let it go. Over ten years later I've not had a further employer, and so that letter ceases to have any relevance if I'm out job hunting ever again)