The Coalition

[Uncle Liam]

Noticed today that the Lib Dem poll rating is still in the toilet.

WIth the Coalition unlikely to last anywhere close to the full five years, what does Clegg do? When the next election comes, regardless of whether he is still in government or not, he'll be seen as the man who sold his principles out to jump into bed with the Tories. And surely that will be reflected at the ballot box? Clegg wont win his referendum on electoral reform, of that I am convinced, and I am not convinced said referendum will actually take place. And even if it does go ahead and he does win, because the Lib Dems dropped the ball on having AV (which isnt 'proper' PR) wont make that much difference anyway!

If i was a Lib Dem MP, I'd be very worried about my seat. As a Lib Dem voter, I sure as hell didnt vote for the Lib Dems to prop up Michael Gove as Education secretary. Once Cable gets sick and tired of being undermined and having to appease the Tory bank benches (surely only a matter of months) does he become a rallying point for pissed off and concerned Lib Dem MP's worried about their jobs? Will there be a Ming Campbell esque removal of Clegg on a dark night?

For whom the bell tolls.

[eFestivals]

I completely get where you're coming from, but I reckon things will only pan out as you suggest if the people of this country are stupid.

And given that the fall in popularity of the DimLibs has been just about exactly matched by a rise in popularity for the tories, the people of this country ARE stupid.

After all, if a person blames Clegg for jumping into bed with the tories and what's that's bringing about but reacts to that by deciding "I'll vote tory in future" - which is what has happened - then such people are too f**king stupid to deserve a vote.

In a sensible world, Clegg should be able to claim "I've managed to restrain the tories from being able to implement the most abhorrent of their manifesto policies", and he should in theory gain some genuine recognition for that achievement.

But unfortunately, while he's got a solid agreement on what will get done from both party's election promises, the tories have already HUGELY screwed the LibDems right over. They've done this by suddenly coming up with everything anyone with half a brain always knew they'd do but which they somehow "forgot" to include in their manifesto - stuff like the biggest reform of the NHS in its history which will channel taxpayers money into private hands, of which there wasn't even a hint at in their manifesto. And because the LibDems don't have an agreement with the tories over this specific policy, the agreement they have for the coalition requires them as a party to support it all the same.

All in all, what Clegg has done is put back the chances of real electoral reform for at least 20 years. And that's unforgivable.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Clegg has always been a terrible man in all honesty. He was a major player in previous coups and I guess karma is coming back round for him soon enough. You'd have to be stupid now to think he wanted anything other than a coalition with the Conservatives and even if there are any Libs left who have the decency to go against the Tory plans, I'd like to see them show their bloody faces. Charles Kennedy seems to be the only one brave enough (and in my opinion, the Lib Dems best leader who was removed in a coup which featured....oh yes, Cleggy boy)

[eFestivals]

Clegg has always been a terrible man in all honesty. He was a major player in previous coups and I guess karma is coming back round for him soon enough. You'd have to be stupid now to think he wanted anything other than a coalition with the Conservatives and even if there are any Libs left who have the decency to go against the Tory plans, I'd like to see them show their bloody faces. Charles Kennedy seems to be the only one brave enough (and in my opinion, the Lib Dems best leader who was removed in a coup which featured....oh yes, Cleggy boy)

so what's the Labour Party member's opinion on your own coup leader? I seem to remember him being highly praised for bringing about a coup in just the same way as Clegg. Now isn't that strange?

As for the "you have to be stupid..." bit, I suggest you try applying that thought to yourself. While Clegg didn't have to cosy up to the tories, he was at least in part driven to it by your own Glorious leader's idiot idea that he could remain as PM for at least half a parliament, which was the only other offer on the table for Clegg, as well as the fact that your own glorious leader was so f**king shite and such a closet tory himself (tax cuts for the rich, tax increases for the poor) that it was hugely amazing that Labour managed to poll the numbers they did. And those numbers gave Clegg no option of cosying up with incompetent Gordon.

So Clegg had two options: either bring about another election and see the tories clean up completely (which no one disputes as the outcome of a 2nd election if we'd had one), or do a deal to restrict how just how big a c**t the tories could be. And on the basis that Clegg has been able to reign in some aspects of toryism at a time when Labour are able to reign in none of it at all, it's a very good thing he's done the deal he has (at least, for the policies which are being implemented right now).

I'd far rather have a lightly c**tish govt than a full-on c**tish govt. If you cared for policies and effects more than you care for your f**ked-up closet tory party you'd agree with that.

[pink_triangle]

I agree that the lib dems didnt have a choice but still think they will be punished in the ballot box. The tories will get the credit for anything positive that comes out of the coallition while lib dems will share the blame for all the negatives. Its pretty likely that all the labour voters who swtiched to lib dems as they were fed up of gordon will switch back, which could also make things difficult. Theres talk about tories not standing in lib dem/tory marginals and vice versa but I cant see this happening as it will make a tory majority almost impossible. I also dont think the av referendum will pass, labour are opposing so it wont need many tories in marginal seats to oppose to stop AV.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

so what's the Labour Party member's opinion on your own coup leader? I seem to remember him being highly praised for bringing about a coup in just the same way as Clegg. Now isn't that strange?

As for the "you have to be stupid..." bit, I suggest you try applying that thought to yourself. While Clegg didn't have to cosy up to the tories, he was at least in part driven to it by your own Glorious leader's idiot idea that he could remain as PM for at least half a parliament, which was the only other offer on the table for Clegg, as well as the fact that your own glorious leader was so f**king shite and such a closet tory himself (tax cuts for the rich, tax increases for the poor) that it was hugely amazing that Labour managed to poll the numbers they did. And those numbers gave Clegg no option of cosying up with incompetent Gordon.

So Clegg had two options: either bring about another election and see the tories clean up completely (which no one disputes as the outcome of a 2nd election if we'd had one), or do a deal to restrict how just how big a c**t the tories could be. And on the basis that Clegg has been able to reign in some aspects of toryism at a time when Labour are able to reign in none of it at all, it's a very good thing he's done the deal he has (at least, for the policies which are being implemented right now).

I'd far rather have a lightly c**tish govt than a full-on c**tish govt. If you cared for policies and effects more than you care for your f**ked-up closet tory party you'd agree with that.

[lost]

he seems to be a rare commodity in politics, someone who’s prepared to put the country before his party and own personal ambitions. As mentioned in that documentary last week, they gave labour a chance to be sensible, their plans to borrow and spend £2 for every £1 of growth over the next 5 years was a sure road to bankruptcy.

I’m sure he’ll get stabbed in the back when the collation finishes but hey a politician who’s prepared to do what he thinks is right above how he thinks it will affect his career, maybe it’ll catch on?

[Bezdad]

What are you on about?

[Pogues Mcgogues]

You can't seriously fail to grasp what Neil's on about. Come on now Poges - this has always been your problem. Address the criticisms of your own party, or just leave the political debates to the grown-ups.

[eFestivals]

Pogues Mahone!

I'm the Jobby Jabber!

new name, same content.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

new name, same content.

[oafc0000]

I completely get where you're coming from, but I reckon things will only pan out as you suggest if the people of this country are stupid.

[oafc0000]

new name, same content bollocks.

[Alcatraz]

Cable will lead the revolt, and it will be great viewing

At present, the coalition is most useful to Cameron, as he tries to shut the dinosaurs up. Clegg will be a Tory by 2015

Edited August 3, 2010 by Alcatraz

[Uncle Liam]

I completely get where you're coming from, but I reckon things will only pan out as you suggest if the people of this country are stupid.

And given that the fall in popularity of the DimLibs has been just about exactly matched by a rise in popularity for the tories, the people of this country ARE stupid.

After all, if a person blames Clegg for jumping into bed with the tories and what's that's bringing about but reacts to that by deciding "I'll vote tory in future" - which is what has happened - then such people are too f**king stupid to deserve a vote.

In a sensible world, Clegg should be able to claim "I've managed to restrain the tories from being able to implement the most abhorrent of their manifesto policies", and he should in theory gain some genuine recognition for that achievement.

But unfortunately, while he's got a solid agreement on what will get done from both party's election promises, the tories have already HUGELY screwed the LibDems right over. They've done this by suddenly coming up with everything anyone with half a brain always knew they'd do but which they somehow "forgot" to include in their manifesto - stuff like the biggest reform of the NHS in its history which will channel taxpayers money into private hands, of which there wasn't even a hint at in their manifesto. And because the LibDems don't have an agreement with the tories over this specific policy, the agreement they have for the coalition requires them as a party to support it all the same.

All in all, what Clegg has done is put back the chances of real electoral reform for at least 20 years. And that's unforgivable.

[llcoolphil]

Why are the Lib Dems going to revolt? It would be electoral suicide on a personal level for all the current MPs and the end of the party as any kind of electoral force for over a generation (it may already be the case anyway)if they did. Cameron needs the coalition for his own political future and right now he's looking good for a full five years - LibDem MPs are gonna sit as tight as they can and hope for an upswing in popularity if we get economic improvement before the next general election - and manage to get the troops home from Afghanistan when they claim - coincidentally just before the next election. On the basis that turkeys dont vote for christmas, I dont think the coalition has ever looked stronger.

[bunique]

In a sensible world, Clegg should be able to claim "I've managed to restrain the tories from being able to implement the most abhorrent of their manifesto policies", and he should in theory gain some genuine recognition for that achievement.

[Uncle Liam]

Why are the Lib Dems going to revolt? It would be electoral suicide on a personal level for all the current MPs and the end of the party as any kind of electoral force for over a generation (it may already be the case anyway)if they did. Cameron needs the coalition for his own political future and right now he's looking good for a full five years - LibDem MPs are gonna sit as tight as they can and hope for an upswing in popularity if we get economic improvement before the next general election - and manage to get the troops home from Afghanistan when they claim - coincidentally just before the next election. On the basis that turkeys dont vote for christmas, I dont think the coalition has ever looked stronger.

[pink_triangle]

The Lib Dems are going to revolt because they dont want to support or prop up a government which goes against most things they have stood for and elected for. Once the Electoral Reform thing unravels- with inevitable rejection- they'll wonder whats the point. Approval ratings in the toilet, supporting a party they and there supporters oppose, political careers on the line.

Also, never under estimate the amazing ability of the Tory party to implode. There's lots of Tories on the bank benches causing and capable of causing trouble. a rebellion from them on concessions to the Lib Dems and the thing comes tumbling down.

The Coalition is, at its very foundation, very weak, despite public appearances.

[llcoolphil]

The Lib Dems are going to revolt because they dont want to support or prop up a government which goes against most things they have stood for and elected for. Once the Electoral Reform thing unravels- with inevitable rejection- they'll wonder whats the point. Approval ratings in the toilet, supporting a party they and there supporters oppose, political careers on the line.

Also, never under estimate the amazing ability of the Tory party to implode. There's lots of Tories on the bank benches causing and capable of causing trouble. a rebellion from them on concessions to the Lib Dems and the thing comes tumbling down.

The Coalition is, at its very foundation, very weak, despite public appearances.

[llcoolphil]

Noticed today that the Lib Dem poll rating is still in the toilet.

Edited August 3, 2010 by llcoolphil

[Uncle Liam]

The Lib rating is in the toilet solely because of the coalition.

I didnt say they would go to the country, they would leave the Coalition, and Cameron would have to try and operate a minority government. They wont be in government by the time the next election comes.

And I would not be surprised to see this unhappiness within the party express at Conference. Time will tell...

Edited August 3, 2010 by Uncle Liam

[llcoolphil]

The Lib rating is in the toilet solely because of the coalition.

I didnt say they would go to the country, they would leave the Coalition, and Cameron would have to try and operate a minority government. They wont be in government by the time the next election comes.

And I would not be surprised to see this unhappiness within the party express at Conference. Time will tell...

[Pogues Mcgogues]

If there's enough of the decent Liberals when it comes to conference. You're forgetting that a lot of people left the Lib Dems after the election for the obvious reasons of them forming a coalition with the Conservatives.

[eFestivals]

If there's enough of the decent Liberals when it comes to conference. You're forgetting that a lot of people left the Lib Dems after the election for the obvious reasons of them forming a coalition with the Conservatives.

oh yes, I remember some rather amazing claims made by someone (I wonder who...? ), saying that so many people left the DimLibs to sign up with the Labour Party that the Labour Party's website crashed under the strain.

If that's true, then not only were Labour grossly incompetent in govt, they're grossly incompetent at building websites too.