Universities

[Pogues Mcgogues]

An alternative route into nursing is to go and work first and then try and get the NHS to sponsor you. A friend of mine did exactly that and got her degree whilst earning her full salary and hd all her fees paid.

There really are lots of things to think about.

[saratink]

I believe the NHS (or the Dpt for Health) pays the tuition fees of all UK based nursing students

Also worth looking at both Uni and NHS grants if you're at all worried about money

[eFestivals]

I very much doubt I'd have the job I have without my Mechanical Engineering degree. In fact, all the technical degrees... engineering, design, science, mathematics etc are essential if you're going to go into that field.

Be not so quick to tarnish all of us graduates with your paint brush of scorn.

I knew I should have given a better explanation.

Education is ALWAYS worthwhile, and it's very necessary for some jobs.

But it doesn't change the fact that for all degrees except those with a vocational element, a graduate knows just about sod all that's immediately useful and valuable to any employer.

After all ... how long was it once you started working that you stopped having to be closely supervised? How long was it before you knew as much and were worth as much to that company as the employees they'd taken on at 18 who hadn't gone to Uni?

Hopefully now you get my point.

[Ed209]

After all ... how long was it once you started working that you stopped having to be closely supervised? How long was it before you knew as much and were worth as much to that company as the employees they'd taken on at 18 who hadn't gone to Uni?

[eFestivals]

I imagine that if he's a mechanical engineer then the answer would be instantly ....

You're wrong. No one on earth fresh out of uni without any experience of working gets close to earning a company the same value as someone at the same company with 3 years experience.

And in response to your £30k a year grad example ... There are a few degrees where the top graduates should be expecting £30k+ a year. If that's what the job market values him at then thats not his fault. I admit that this is a rare occurance though.

I don't disagree, but that only gets to show how f**ked up some aspects of the job market are - it's the likes of that that have dropped us in the shit we're in right now.

[ampersand]

Thats good then. Because i didn't know whether it was just for the country you lived in!

I like these boards because everyone seems to know everything

[Alcatraz]

yup, i love these boards. someone asks a geniune question for help and it turns into a willy waving contest by the usual suspects about who knows the most about something.

[Ed209]

You're wrong. No one on earth fresh out of uni without any experience of working gets close to earning a company the same value as someone at the same company with 3 years experience.

[llcoolphil]

yup, i love these boards. someone asks a geniune question for help and it turns into a willy waving contest by the usual suspects about who knows the most about something.

[llcoolphil]

hmmm... I agree that in a lot of cases this is true, but I think there are counterexamples... e.g. If you're in a technology and engineering company, then a good graduate with the technical knowhow who can get straight into the research and development that is the companies business and money maker, is going to be more valuable to the company than someone who started work at 18 as a junior and who in 3 years has progressed to being in charge of soldering stuff, fiddling with the hardware and setting up lab equipment. Don't get me wrong, these people are often crucial to a company, but they are much easier replaced than the grad with the technical knowhow.

these examples are often restricted to highly technical work though where degrees are essential.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Where is the willy waving? The OP was asking about degrees in nursing. Some people have talked about university choice options and how to go about making them, some people have suggested that university might not be the best option and offered alternatives and others have pointed out the risk of being drawn into the idea of how much they might earn as a graduate as opposed to as a non graduate. There are many different perspectives to the OP's question, all as valid as each other. Just because you dont understand that, dont assume others dont either.

[lost]

I chose a university based on it being on a decent bus route from my house, didn't really think the extra debt for living away was worth it plus 18 year olds pissed me off when I was 18, spent my final year in a shared house then when id met some decent people

[eFestivals]

hmmm... I agree that in a lot of cases this is true, but I think there are counterexamples... e.g. If you're in a technology and engineering company, then a good graduate with the technical knowhow who can get straight into the research and development that is the companies business and money maker, is going to be more valuable to the company than someone who started work at 18 as a junior and who in 3 years has progressed to being in charge of soldering stuff, fiddling with the hardware and setting up lab equipment. Don't get me wrong, these people are often crucial to a company, but they are much easier replaced than the grad with the technical knowhow.

these examples are often restricted to highly technical work though where degrees are essential.

I recognise where you're coming from, but would still say you're wrong - if for nothing more than the new guy won't know the manner in which that company does things. In my experience of a number of jobs over nearly 30 years, it takes around 3 months to feel fully comfortable in a new job, so that you know that you're doing the right things in the right manner for that company, and not having to ask them stuff like "do you do this thing in this way or that way at this company?"

(Of course, if that job was something with less responsibilities and perhaps repetitive, that wouldn't necessarily be the case. But they're not the sorts of jobs that those considering going to uni are likely to end up doing)

My first job was a 4 year apprenticeship as an electrician, which consisted of two years at college doing academic and practical training, followed by another two years of on-the-job training. At the end of it I had all the necessary knowledge to do the job, but it was still around another year or two before I felt properly confident (rather than stupidly youthfully over-confident) to be able to tackle any job at full-speed and without cock-ups - and so returning the full expected value to my employer - that I might have been given.

[eFestivals]

But how many actually can get straight into the R & D? Isn't it a common complaint across the technical industries that technical degrees aint wot they used to be? And isn't academic training in a university lab a lot different form actually doing the job? I mean, what are the chances that you'll know all the processes and equipment just from doing a degree? Genuine question not being a technical graduate

I'd say that a technical grad would know the 'proper' processes, and would know a range of equipment that can be used to do it.

But they'd quite possibly find that the employer they went to used a completely different set of equipment (been there done that countless times) which takes another dose of learning, and that the 'proper' processes they'd learnt at college bore little resemblance to how those things are done in a commercial environment.

Someone once described it to me like this: "you learnt at college how to do it properly, now you get to learn how it's done in the real world".

Of course, such things are employer dependent. If you're one of those people who work in a company outside of the 'public' govt-funded services*, and if it's a company that does things 100% by the book, then there's a very good chance that company will go down the pan before too long. The more dynamic companies - which are the ones that get to displace those behemoths sooner or later - are cutting corners left right and centre, and it's via that that they gain their commercial advantage that has them displace others.

That cutting of corners without adding risks to process or end product takes no less learning than it does to learn the 'proper' way of doing things. (I'm not suggesting that learning the 'proper' way is a waste of time - it's via that that you learn how to 'bodge' things without adding risk).

(* public services have a far greater pressure on them to only ever do things the 'proper' way because of taxpayer responsibility, and of course don't have to particularly worry about the commercial disadvantages of always doing things the 'proper' way).

PS: I've been thru a technical course of 3 or more years twice, tho neither were a degree (one was C&G, the other HND) and both had vocational aspects. I can't see how purely desk or lab based uni learning will produce people who come out more 'work ready' at the end than training that has vocational aspects.

Edited September 2, 2010 by eFestivals

[llcoolphil]

PS: I've been thru a technical course of 3 or more years twice, tho neither were a degree (one was C&G, the other HND) and both had vocational aspects. I can't see how purely desk or lab based uni learning will produce people who come out more 'work ready' at the end than training that has vocational aspects.

[brighteyes]

My choice was simple. I'd heard good things from friends about Bristol and Cardiff, both of which did my course. Cardiff was cheaper to live and I'd never been to Wales, so I decided on Cardiff.

[rubenz]

How did everyone pick which university they wanted to go to?

I don't have to choose yet, but i don't have a clue what to try and apply for.

[saratink]

My choice was simple. I'd heard good things from friends about Bristol and Cardiff, both of which did my course. Cardiff was cheaper to live and I'd never been to Wales, so I decided on Cardiff.

[rubenz]

Wow cardiffs cheap to live?! I know its an expensive night out. Thats why i never really go to cardiff on a night out!

aha i love going to asda in ugg boots and pajama bottoms at like midnight its awesome driving in pajamas makes me feel all snuggily!!

the thing about bristol is that the bridge costs 5.50 to get over, which is bloomin' annoying!!

[saratink]

We need to do something to keep control of our borders!

I would say seriously that if you go to Uni that its good to go somewhere that is far enough away from home that you don't end up going back every weekend and really make the most of it. I went to Leeds which is a great city to be a student in and a friendly place. We had grants in my day though so I guess cost has to be a factor as others have said. It is about more than just getting a degree though and I am still close friends with people I met at uni 10 years ago.

[Alcatraz]

the thing about bristol is that the bridge costs 5.50 to get over, which is bloomin' annoying!!

[saratink]

Yeah but at least you don't have to pay to get out of Wales

[lifelessfool]

For me the biggest factor was where I ended up, when I went to Loughborough I chose the course carefully and not the location and I bloody hated it, like massivley. Decide whether you want a campus uni in a small town or a city uni. Now I've gone to Manchester( admitedly not as high ranking) I feel so much happier and life. I put little research into where I was going and had a miserable time, so deffinitley go visit and maybe have a night out there if you can. As for courses my course has very little value in getting a job (probably) but at least I am learning about something I'm really interested in rather than something that bored me such as computing which I did first time round.

[Ed209]

But how many actually can get straight into the R & D? Isn't it a common complaint across the technical industries that technical degrees aint wot they used to be? And isn't academic training in a university lab a lot different form actually doing the job? I mean, what are the chances that you'll know all the processes and equipment just from doing a degree? Genuine question not being a technical graduate

[jump]

To OP, you may want to try looking at Kingston Uni. It's near London but doens't cost as much and as a guess from your other posts you're into pop punk etc. and the Kingston music scene is run by a local label/music shop and they manage to get bands like Bowling For Soup, New Found Glory, Set Your Goals etc for under a tenner on their door step.

Edited September 6, 2010 by jump