Tories in Trouble Already?

[llcoolphil]

Try thinking oustide party politics for a second Phil, just one second and that'd be grand!

[llcoolphil]

These things are very very different to Hague's 'advisor'.

The Milliband's have degrees in a relevant subject, and worked for Labour in advisor's jobs before Labour were in power; same for Balls. So while them as MPs is defo is the result of who they know, it's a fairly standard route to becoming an MP. Dave Moron ended up as PM via a very similar route, and while that route is worthy of its own criticisms it's a long way from the situation with Hague and his driver-turned-foreign-expert.

And again with Harman and Droman, while it's dodgy as f**k (and made a candidate against the constituency's wishes, contrary to Pogo's statement that that doesn't happen), again that's a long-used route via which people end up as MPs, and it's not like Jack doesn't have long-standing publicly-known Labour leanings. Lady Astor anyone?

None of these are remotely like a "driver" suddenly getting promoted to be advisor and permanent sidekick to the Foreign Secretary - they're in a completely different ball-park, playing a totally different game.

[eFestivals]

'new information' - Tell me how you know this isn't the case exactly. Have you been listening in to phone calls made by the victims to the investigators or something?

there *IS* some new info, but nothing that's not been round before in similar form.

A guy who's just been sacked by NotW has gone to other papers to say he was spoken to by Coulson about stuff around intercepting voicemails. However, as I saw on Sky News at lunchtime today, he's being portrayed as someone with issues with drink and drugs - but that's what would happen if he was on the level, so that doesn't dismiss things.

But what he's said is something that many witnesses said with the initial investigation. The police, etc, chose to believe Coulson over those earlier witnesses, so it's nothing extra to what's previously been alleged.

Considering everybody in the Labour camp were on the lead up to an election, do you think that's the most important thing on people's minds?

... the lamest excuse ever!!! It would have been superb ammo via which to knobble the tories.

But it would have had its own consequences, with the Murdoch press turning properly on Labour, something they held back from just in case Labour did somehow win. So it wouldn't have brought Labour much advantage, if any.

What it does all say with their complaints now is that want the tories to stand up to Murdoch in the way that Labour were too chicken to do. It's laughable.

[eFestivals]

Really? I haven't seen this anywhere in the press.

you have a link you can post?

I can't remember where I saw a pic and read some text about it now, but it might have been on the websites of either NotW or Sunday Mirror when I was hunting down the Rooney story yesterday.

[Kowalski]

It's all about putting your mates in positions they want to be in.

[eFestivals]

It's all about putting your mates in positions they want to be in. We dont know what he was advising him on so cant judge whether he was able to do so or not. Im a driver but Ive got lots of other skills!

He was Hague's driver on a salary of no more than £30k a year.

He was then made Hague's personal advisor on foreign policy issues on a salary of £30k a year after Hague had to sack him as a driver because the one of the first things the coalition did was stand down all govt-paid personal drivers.

Even if it's simply "a job for a mate" it's the most ill-advised job-for-a-mate that I've ever heard of. If nothing else it shows his judgement is too f**ked for him to be Foreign Secretary.

I cant believe that Hague acted entirely unilaterally in releasing his press statement, Camoron will certainly have known about and almost certainly the Cabinet Secretary. Both will know if there is security information that contradicts Hague's position.

From the various reactions, it seems most likely that the likes of Moron wasn't consulted.

If Hague's stated position is contrary to what's known by the security services it still doesn't make his position untenable, as I laid out above. Their concern will be the possible impact back on the country via blackmail and nothing else - and there's ways for that to be covered, as I detailed.

And if there is, it is almost beyond belief that Camoron would have given him his unreserved backing if it was going to come back and bite him on the arse - the absolute best time to let Hague 'retire' would be over summer.

There's all sorts of angles Moron could take as his primary view - one being that it makes him look incompetent if he sacks Hague, however right that might be to do.

As for timings, I'd say the summer is the very worst time - it's silly season, when a story like that would run and run. If he were sacked at just about any other time of year the story would have far fewer legs.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Im embarrassed for you again. Why am I thinking outside of party politics when this is ENTIRELY a party politics matter?

[pink_triangle]

And anyway, lets just say the rumours were true - would having an affair have brought the Foreign Secretary down? Don't think so in this day and age.

[philipsteak]

Im a driver but Ive got lots of other skills!

[Snufflebutt]

I think an openly gay foreign secretary would find it difficult, there are lots of countries who are still very homophobic and would see it as a weakness. Also dont forget politician are very ambitious. I think it would be very hard for an openly gay person to win the labour leadership and then a general election. I think it would almost be impossible for a conservative.

[llcoolphil]

Admit it, you miss him. You're just trying to tempt him back with that one aren't you.

[pink_triangle]

I just do not accept that it would matter to other countries who a foreign secretary slept with. Paris has a gay mayor, Iceland has a lesbian prime minister. In fact I'll bet Cameron is looking for homosexual men and women to parachute into safe seats.

[Kowalski]

Admit it, you miss him. You're just trying to tempt him back with that one aren't you.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

Has oaf left?

[eFestivals]

I completely disagree. I read somewhere that in a poll something like 70% didn't care about whether a certain politician was gay

which of course means that any gay politician would have problems being supported by 30% of the population before getting onto policies that they actually champion.

So I don't think a gay politician is on quite as much solid ground as you're imagining.

But things are definitely going in the right direction, which is of course a good thing.

[Snufflebutt]

So which major(no offence iceland) countries have or have had openly gay people as primeminister/president? Im sure when asked many will say they dont care whether a person is gay. I suspect peoples predjudices come out more in the polling booth. Your right that cameron will look for some token homosexuals in the party but whether he will parachute them into major cabinet roles is another thing.

[eFestivals]

The Sun was openly printing homosexual slurs about Justin Fashanu when he came out 15 years ago. It wasnt even that long ago homosexuality was illegal. Both of those things are unthinkable now.

Really?

The Sun and most other papers still regularly print homophobic slurs, they're just far more subtle about it than they used to be.

This Hague story has its roots in the idea that it's somehow wrong to be gay. Would the papers have run the story in the same way if it was about Hague sharing a room with a female aide? Not a bleeding chance.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

This Hague story has its roots in the idea that it's somehow wrong to be gay. Would the papers have run the story in the same way if it was about Hague sharing a room with a female aide? Not a bleeding chance.