JSA once the kid hits 7

[eFestivals]

Who is going to do that job on £12k pa now then? Do they want us all living ten to a house or something?

From one angle, removing the support to employees that employers benefit by (after all, they don't need to pay a living wage if the govt will make it up to one) is a good thing - it will mean that those employers will need to pay a decent wage if they want an employee, and won't be able to walk off off with the extra profits the govt gives them via that support for employees.

But of course in the short term - and particularly in a time of very high unemployment - it won't have that effect, and the people who will suffer will be only the employees.

But anyway, the purpose of removing that support isn't anything to do with getting employers to pay a fair wage - it's to save the govt cash, and to re-create a huge sub-class of the poor which is easily able to be identified as that (in tory eyes) worthless scum, who the rest fear becoming a part of ... and who vote tory because they don't want to be identified as a part of that worthless scum.

It the exact same thing as Thatcher did, it's the same divide-and-rule principle, where the govt only need care about the 35% of the population they need supporting them for them to remain in power.

And with that in mind it's no wonder that they simply wouldn't accept a referendum on PR no matter what (despite the voting system being something for the voters to decide, and not those who gain power as a result of that vote) - if there was PR then operating then it becomes impossible to operate a govt for minority benefit.

[MrZigster]

A lot probably will...

[eFestivals]

It is funny how you say asking people who are fit and able to "look" for work ends up with everyone saying you are totally behind all the cuts...

A few of you need to grow up a bit... I don't like a lot of what is said in this article... It states a lot of the stuff I think is wrong and the reason I voted Labour...

Que Neil, to tell you all what I think instead... Tell you all what you want to hear...

In this case, I've only told people what you've3 said - and what you've said is that this change to JSA is not about cutting benefits, when it is.

If you actually bothered to read more than the frigging headline you'd not have spouted inaccurate bollocks over 19 pages of this thread, where you've claimed there's no cuts in benefits.

[eFestivals]

A lot probably will...

Until they have to sell it to pay their rent.

[eFestivals]

So that makes it allright then? A bloke has to leave his job because of a cut to his benefits and he's not paid enough to run a car and/or live near his work? That's allright because there's a lot of new jobless people with cars to replace him?

what's passing oafish by is that scenario is precisely what the intention of the policies is.

It's about driving down wages, to the benefit of the rich. It's about cutting back on benefit payments to give tax cuts to the rich (such as the many that slimy Gideon has already announced, with many others already admitted as 'aspirational').

And it's not about taxing the bankers that caused the problems as slimy Gideon falsely claims to be doing - while he's introduced a 'bank levy', he's more than offset that with other tax cuts so that the banks will be paying a lower level of tax than they were paying before the crisis.

[MrZigster]

From one angle, removing the support to employees that employers benefit by (after all, they don't need to pay a living wage if the govt will make it up to one) is a good thing - it will mean that those employers will need to pay a decent wage if they want an employee, and won't be able to walk off off with the extra profits the govt gives them via that support for employees.

But of course in the short term - and particularly in a time of very high unemployment - it won't have that effect, and the people who will suffer will be only the employees.

But anyway, the purpose of removing that support isn't anything to do with getting employers to pay a fair wage - it's to save the govt cash, and to re-create a huge sub-class of the poor which is easily able to be identified as that (in tory eyes) worthless scum, who the rest fear becoming a part of ... and who vote tory because they don't want to be identified as a part of that worthless scum.

It the exact same thing as Thatcher did, it's the same divide-and-rule principle, where the govt only need care about the 35% of the population they need supporting them for them to remain in power.

And with that in mind it's no wonder that they simply wouldn't accept a referendum on PR no matter what (despite the voting system being something for the voters to decide, and not those who gain power as a result of that vote) - if there was PR then operating then it becomes impossible to operate a govt for minority benefit.

[MrZigster]

Can you find a quote where I said it is all right ? But you asked who will do that job...

Edited October 26, 2010 by MrZigster

[eFestivals]

It isn't a case of anything passing me by

really? Then why have you stated thru this thread that this change to JSA will not ultimately see people's benefits cut, when it VERY DEFINITELY WILL see people's benefit's cut?

FFS, it was made 100% clear in the first few paras of the article you linked to when you started this thread.

If what you say is true and it didn't pass you by, then I can only conclude that you've DELIBERATELY chosen to present lies as truth, which makes you a far bigger c**t than just being the stupid idiot we all know you to be by what you say.

[lost]

...

the going rate for renting on the private market is stupidly high, so what's the solution?

put up the rents on social housing..

mind, I'm not happy with the idea that social housing is subsidised (as Polly says in the article). I thought that more of fair rent for people who can't afford the going rate

[RABun]

...

the going rate for renting on the private market is stupidly high, so what's the solution?

put up the rents on social housing..

mind, I'm not happy with the idea that social housing is subsidised (as Polly says in the article). I thought that more of fair rent for people who can't afford the going rate

[lost]

not putting up the rents which are affordable for many seems a reasonable start.

if the landlords are non profit making councils or housing associations who could put profits back into more affordable housing (or other public services) I don't see a problem

[RABun]

[lost]

but the private market is only able to exploit the situation because there's little choice. Simply levelling the playing field by putting up the lower rents, seems to be almost giving them (the landlords) the ok

[rachbon]

raging i'm back at work now and don't have time for arguements on here anymore, this would have been a good one.

[dakyras]

All you're doing is showing that you have no idea of how a person can get by - as many do - on a tenner a week for food.

[rexclark]

raging i'm back at work now and don't have time for arguements on here anymore, this would have been a good one.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

stop stealing our words! c**t!

[feral chile]

So please do tell me how even that £40 is afforded when all the money has been (hypothetically) spent on food to be cooked that can't be cooked because the cooker has died.

These are the real choices that real people are facing every day - how do I not starve.

The problem is that you have no idea what real people go thru, so are of the belief that their welfare payments can be cut without consequence.

Edited October 26, 2010 by feral chile

[gratedenini]

you two are reminding me of some very hard times in the 80's, under the last Tory regime. There wasn't enough money to cover our basic needs, never mind essential repairs. We used to have to decide which essential to leave out each week. I'm talking not being able to afford mortgage, fuel and food all at the same time. We had to have our central heating shut down once, because the flue collapsed and it was unsafe. British Gas said they couldn't replace it because it was so old, and we'd need a new central heating system. The very nice gas fitter took one look at my face, and our 3 very small children, and arranged for the flue to be manually beaten back into shape and replaced it for us.

One thing I've found is that when you're really on your uppers, there are always really good people to be found if you look hard enough.

i think they're going to be in need again for people soon...

If we manage to keep our jobs, I hope I'll be in a position to pass on some of the kindness that's been shown to me in the past.

[llcoolphil]

We are a working family...

Lots of schools do pre and post school clubs etc these days as well.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

7's too young!

[feral chile]

Maybe we could have a quiet discussion whilst Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing are out for the night feuding...

So, afford mortgage in 80s. You will therefore remember the interest rates soaring to over 15%. We were right up shits creek and ended up having to sell the house and move into a two-up two-down. A little while after of course...along came Negative Equity eh!

Y`know... everybody has their tale of "Oh aye! I remember when we had nowt!"

Most of it is metaphorical.. but I do remember having nowt but a tin of peas in the cupboard..had young baby, power/gas cut off..was awful.

I went shoplifting in Fine Fayre so we could eat (bottle of Vodka and a cassette of Elton John I got! )....

Was truly an awful time.

Gas Fitter... wouldn`t happen now! ...cos you`d sue the bastard if it went wrong eh!!

I dont think you should look for things to come to you... if its gonna come--it will.

Back then... we got involved in the Church a lot. I remember one Xmas time...snow was thick on the ground, 2 young bairns, I was on the sausage,things were terrible... heard a knock on the door... went out..and here in the snow, was a huge f**k-off box of food and Xmas Goodies..anonymous.

Next morning we woke up and there was a set of car keys on the mat. Someone from Church was going away for the hols..and had left their car for us to use.. had a profound effect on me those things.

After that.. I`ve always considered anything I have is borrowed from God... and if a friend wants/needs something--and i`ve got it..its theirs.

If you are in a position to pass something on.... I could do with some food.... and a little drink wouldn`t go amiss--and some razor blades.

aye, life eh.

den OIP

[gratedenini]

Yeah, we're not home owners now. We sold up before we got repossessed, and have never been able to get back on the property ladder again.

[llcoolphil]

I could of stayed in my first house... Where would the next generation of first time buyers buy an house ? or where would the renters go ?

[llcoolphil]

Its not... Fact is from age 4 the children are cared for by the state from 9 to 3...