Fire Extinguisher Throwing Student

[eFestivals]

Not thinking isn't really much of an excuse though.

i have sympathy for his harsh sentence....but he was asking for trouble and is lucky he didn't kill anyone

Oh, I'm not saying it's an excuse, but it is I think a very relevant context to put against his actions. 18 year olds in general are all rather stupid on one level, as a simply consequence of their age.

That's not me being nasty about 18 year olds. The simple fact is that their life experiences - particularly their independent life experiences - are limited by their young age, and that effects what they might do.

[Katster]

I'm not sure what I think. He's 18, he did something really stupid, so do 9.9 out of 10 people that age.

Three years seems a long time for one 'act of madness' but he'd be looking at a lot longer had he hit someone which he very nearly did.

Perhaps 'they' are making an example of his case but that might be a good thing, it might stop someone else doing the same and being a bit better with their aim!!!

[worm]

how many people do you see driving

Edited January 12, 2011 by worm

[worm]

But, you live in Shields.

[Ed209]

Perhaps 'they' are making an example of his case but that might be a good thing, it might stop someone else doing the same and being a bit better with their aim!!!

[brighteyes]

I wasn't exactly a massive fan of all the protests, but have to say I was surprised to hear how long he was sent down for. Spent a few minutes looking for examples of people convicted for throwing a brick from a motorway bridge, but couldn't find any. I'll be interested to see how his sentence compares with any convictions from THIS, for example.

[gratedenini]

When put against the sentence handed out to a mature man who had reached a high level of public office and who had very deliberately chosen rip off the people of this country for £20k (which I suspect is merely what he got caught for - there's very possibly more he stole) - I'm talking about the ex-MP David Chaytor - and who got just 18 months, this sentence for this kid is shown as excessive and very definitely politically motivated.

Edited January 12, 2011 by gratedenini

[eFestivals]

I`ve got to disagree with you on the above though No1 (where yer been btw).

I think 18m for 20k is excessive..and I think he got lashed because of who he was and the nature of what he did.

I am in no way condoning the crime or owt..but you can look in nearly every paper and see folks welchin loads more than 20k and getting a reletively lenient sentence.

While it's true that 18 months is a longer sentence than a benefit cheat might get for ripping off the same money, they have very different contexts.

It's almost always the case that any "benefit cheat" has started off with a legitimate claim, but their circumstances has changed but they've failed to inform the benefits office of that - which of course makes it a scam that's become available to them via that change, rather than something they deliberately set out to do from the off.

It's also the case in many cases that a benefit cheat has no job and often very little in the way of possessions, etc, while seeing others all around them with (comparitive) wealth. Wanting some of what other normal people have is not a huge crime of greed, even if what a person takes is not what they're entitled to.

The MP had a job paying him £60k+ a year, plus a mass of things he could claim for (new TVs and the like), as well as being in high public office. To very deliberately rip off the country from that position is to my mind a far greater crime than it is for someone in a lowly position to want to be like other 'normal' people.

The crimes themselves are both equally wrong, but the circumstances for both crimes are hugely different. To my mind, what the MP has done is grossly and calculatingly greedy, while the benefit cheat has committed a crime of circumstances.

Theres a wifey in an article in the local paper--systematically robbed the charity she was working for of £125 over a period of years.

The usual long trail of mitigating circumstances are trawlwed out...depression,debt,marriage breakdown etc etc.

The sentence? TWO YEARS!!! .... SUSPENDED!!!

Now--I`m not saying she should have been locked up and the key thrown away because I believe prison does nowt to rehabilitate people..but in the context of this thread... Chaytors sentence is harsh imo.

I saw of a benefit cheat yesterday, who ripped off £40k while saying she couldn't walk, and who then spent each day playing golf. She got suspended too.

While I agree that against that Chaytor's sentence is harsh, he was in a position of responsibility - not only to a job and employer, but to the country too. I don't think that very relevant fact can be ignored.

But I do dislike the fact that he (and the others yet to come) are being the fall-guys for the cheating by nearly all MPs. I still believe that every MP that had to pay money back should be barred from public office at the very least.

[gratedenini]

I wasn`t particualry using the benefit cheats as a comparison..thats a whole issue in itself which I have commented on ie I would diddle the system tommorow if I could...

The MPs... the salary really isn`t much in line for what they do imo.

In general-- the majority of them (from my limited experience) do work long and hard hours and are away from home a lot. Whilst its their choice of course..its still must be hard for the brass they get.

I believe that its been the way since Twatchers Day, that because it wouldn`t have seen to be right giving the MPs a huge pay rise.. the expense system was used therefore to "supplement" their incomes.

I have no problem whatsoever with any MP claiming for a TV for his second home.. if --if its within the rules set down. Because then--its not his fault.

I defy anybody not to take whatever they legitamely can from expenses.

Of course.. these thieves are another thing eh, the bastards..and they deserve to be punished accordingly.

Funnily enough--when i was typing my first reply... the news was on--and this twat of a bloke had winched millions of pounds of loads of people under the guise of one of these Ponsy Schemes... ruined peoples lives whilst he lived a champagne lifestayle... I was busting to hear what sentence he got--but it will be a while yet before we know.

He should get 10-15years at least imo--but he wont.

den

[feral chile]

While it's true that 18 months is a longer sentence than a benefit cheat might get for ripping off the same money, they have very different contexts.

It's almost always the case that any "benefit cheat" has started off with a legitimate claim, but their circumstances has changed but they've failed to inform the benefits office of that - which of course makes it a scam that's become available to them via that change, rather than something they deliberately set out to do from the off.

It's also the case in many cases that a benefit cheat has no job and often very little in the way of possessions, etc, while seeing others all around them with (comparitive) wealth. Wanting some of what other normal people have is not a huge crime of greed, even if what a person takes is not what they're entitled to.

The MP had a job paying him £60k+ a year, plus a mass of things he could claim for (new TVs and the like), as well as being in high public office. To very deliberately rip off the country from that position is to my mind a far greater crime than it is for someone in a lowly position to want to be like other 'normal' people.

The crimes themselves are both equally wrong, but the circumstances for both crimes are hugely different. To my mind, what the MP has done is grossly and calculatingly greedy, while the benefit cheat has committed a crime of circumstances.

I saw of a benefit cheat yesterday, who ripped off £40k while saying she couldn't walk, and who then spent each day playing golf. She got suspended too.

While I agree that against that Chaytor's sentence is harsh, he was in a position of responsibility - not only to a job and employer, but to the country too. I don't think that very relevant fact can be ignored.

But I do dislike the fact that he (and the others yet to come) are being the fall-guys for the cheating by nearly all MPs. I still believe that every MP that had to pay money back should be barred from public office at the very least.

[feral chile]

I wasn`t particualry using the benefit cheats as a comparison..thats a whole issue in itself which I have commented on ie I would diddle the system tommorow if I could...

The MPs... the salary really isn`t much in line for what they do imo.

In general-- the majority of them (from my limited experience) do work long and hard hours and are away from home a lot. Whilst its their choice of course..its still must be hard for the brass they get.

I believe that its been the way since Twatchers Day, that because it wouldn`t have seen to be right giving the MPs a huge pay rise.. the expense system was used therefore to "supplement" their incomes.

I have no problem whatsoever with any MP claiming for a TV for his second home.. if --if its within the rules set down. Because then--its not his fault.

I defy anybody not to take whatever they legitamely can from expenses.

Of course.. these thieves are another thing eh, the bastards..and they deserve to be punished accordingly.

Funnily enough--when i was typing my first reply... the news was on--and this twat of a bloke had winched millions of pounds of loads of people under the guise of one of these Ponsy Schemes... ruined peoples lives whilst he lived a champagne lifestayle... I was busting to hear what sentence he got--but it will be a while yet before we know.

He should get 10-15years at least imo--but he wont.

den

[gratedenini]

Do they really have to be away from home a lot, with today's technology? Shouldn't the whole system get modernised and rationalised, like they're doing to the rest of the public sector?

After all, we're all in this together.

[jump]

Nah. Thats not gonna work is it. The elected MPs need to be at the Hoose of P to debate and vote etc...now whilst voting could very well be done over t`net... the debating needs to be done in a huddle surely.

I know theres a lot of cynicism particulary amongst the younger folks re MPs and that--but I really honestly think that they all get into it because they are interested and care about the community and country.

What happens after that...well--the vagries of human nature might come into it. Needs/family/finances etc.

Overall, I`m a trusting person and usually think the best of someone until such times that my opinion might change --as in Gary Glitter.

And a point about money... the more salary you get--the more you spend.. so even someone getting 60k a year might find themsells in a position of winchin brass that they not entitled to.

Not saying its right.. but....

den

[Katster]

Not all of them but specificly career politician piss me off, they enter into politics because it's all they know without the real life experiences & skills to make their decesions. My thoery is that living in the political bubble led to the mp expenses scandal in the 1st place.

[Snufflebutt]

Once again..huge variables means yer cant be too pedantic about it all..but I say very strongly..prison doesn`t stop people "doing it again"

The re-offending figures are there to see. People have to be punished..we cant have a lawless soceity and these issues are impossible to really answer.

[wee_insomniac]

What I couldn't believe was when I heard on the radio a while ago that a soldier who had admitted "Shooting at Afghan civilians for fun" was only given 9 months in prison because he agreed to whistle blow on the others who were doing it...

[rabid]

What I couldn't believe was when I heard on the radio a while ago that a soldier who had admitted "Shooting at Afghan civilians for fun" was only given 9 months in prison because he agreed to whistle blow on the others who were doing it...

[feral chile]

Nah. Thats not gonna work is it. The elected MPs need to be at the Hoose of P to debate and vote etc...now whilst voting could very well be done over t`net... the debating needs to be done in a huddle surely.I know theres a lot of cynicism particulary amongst the younger folks re MPs and that--but I really honestly think that they all get into it because they are interested and care about the community and country.

What happens after that...well--the vagries of human nature might come into it. Needs/family/finances etc.

Overall, I`m a trusting person and usually think the best of someone until such times that my opinion might change --as in Gary Glitter.

And a point about money... the more salary you get--the more you spend.. so even someone getting 60k a year might find themsells in a position of winchin brass that they not entitled to.

Not saying its right.. but....

den

[llcoolphil]

Haven't read all the thread but my twopenneth - the lad was an arse but sending him to jail serves no efffective purpose whatsoever

[gratedenini]

Not all of them but specificly career politician piss me off, they enter into politics because it's all they know without the real life experiences & skills to make their decesions. My thoery is that living in the political bubble led to the mp expenses scandal in the 1st place.

[llcoolphil]

Thats as maybe... but by the same token.. yer couldn`t just let him off could yer. If the thing hit one of your reletives--- you`d be wanting the bloke strung up. So in the absence of any feasable alternatives... nick it is.

den

[worm]

Thats as maybe... but by the same token.. yer couldn`t just let him off could yer. If the thing hit one of your reletives--- you`d be wanting the bloke strung up. So in the absence of any feasable alternatives... nick it is.

den

[feral chile]

But it didn't.

Absence of what feasible alternatives? I can think of many community based alternatives more suited to someone with a whole future in front of them learning what happens when you behave like a dick.

[gratedenini]

But it didn't.

Absence of what feasible alternatives? I can think of many community based alternatives more suited to someone with a whole future in front of them learning what happens when you behave like a dick.

[diddly-dee]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo060720/text/60720w1849.htm

In the context of the sentences detailed above (particlularly those given for assault, GBH, ABH and manslaughter), the sentence this lad got seems exceptionally harsh.