Fire Extinguisher Throwing Student

[gratedenini]

what was your mates point? the guy got the best part of 3 years...

not being funny or anything, but what is your experience of people getting community service sentences? and whether they're more or less 'succesful' than prison...?

[llcoolphil]

maybe in this one particualr case we discussing..you might be right..but in general,from what I`ve seen, the people who go on these community schemes as an alternative to prison,simply take the piss and try to get away with as much as they can.

Edited January 17, 2011 by llcoolphil

[gratedenini]

Given we are discussing this one particular case...

This was a first offence. Nobody got hurt and it would appear very much to be an act of stupidity rather than malicious intent. I cant think of a single reason not to give him a community sentence and a myriad for not sending him to a YOI. How many people have you seen on community based punishments - and what do you think the reoffending rates vs incarceration are?

No we're not. We're looking at him as a daft and naive 18 year old with a whole future in front of him.

He might. But because we send a disproportionate amount of young black men to prison doesnt mean we should even that up by sending more white boys to prison

So it's not the answer but it is the answer. Brilliant.

[gratedenini]

<< How many people have you seen on community based punishments - and what do you think the reoffending rates vs incarceration are?>>

Suprisingly high as I suspected :

Reconviction rates

Community rehabilitation order: 62.6%

Drug treatment and testing order: 88.9%

Community punishment order: 38.9%

Community punishment and rehabilitation order: 54.4%

Prison: 67.4%

Whilst the above figures are 5yrs old--- I dont think there will be a huge fluctuation from today.

den

[sifi]

Punishment has no part in justice. Nor has vengeance. It's about protecting the public, rehabilitating the perpetrator and setting a deterant.

Unfortunarely these fine principles have been swapped for the demands of the mob via the media.

[dakyras]

that's why the death penalty wouldn't make any difference

[sifi]

it's been proven (pretty much) that most sentences have little effect as a deterrent. Most people know that to do some things is wrong. The people who do the 'wrong' things don't contemplate what might happen if they get caught... they don't think they will

that's why the death penalty wouldn't make any difference

[gratedenini]

it's been proven (pretty much) that most sentences have little effect as a deterrent. Most people know that to do some things is wrong. The people who do the 'wrong' things don't contemplate what might happen if they get caught... they don't think they will

that's why the death penalty wouldn't make any difference

[llcoolphil]

You`ll be fronting the FREE PETER SUTCLIFFE CAMPAIGN next will you?

[eFestivals]

maybe we could kill everyone at birth... it wouldn't take long for there to be no crime at all...

while I know you're joking, this is pretty much the thinking of the old bill when considering (only) how to reduce crime.

It gets demonstrated all the time with the things they push for - such as anyone ever arrested being put on the DNA database guilty or not, or their calls for ever longer time a person can be held for before being charged.

[gratedenini]

while I know you're joking, this is pretty much the thinking of the old bill when considering (only) how to reduce crime.

It gets demonstrated all the time with the things they push for - such as anyone ever arrested being put on the DNA database guilty or not, or their calls for ever longer time a person can be held for before being charged.

[llcoolphil]

If its percentages, let's take everyone's dna at birth, just in case they do something later in life. Let's hand control of our personal finances to the state so we can't buy anything dodgy. Let's fit everyone with tracking devices so we know where everyone is and when. Alternatively ee can look at the undercover police farrago and think whether we want to hand more power and influence to a police force that is out of control in this instance and lacking totally any sense of integrity whatsoever

[eFestivals]

right, I've found a decent comparison to make over the sentence this guy got.......

A student gets 32 months for throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof which could have killed (but didn't) a police officer at a protest.

A policemen gets 0 prosecution and 0 years for striking and pushing a person - Ian Tomlinson - which could have killed him at a protest (and one pathologist says probably did).

The student is made an example of, to show society that such things aren't acceptable.

The policeman is made an example of, to show other policemen - and the public - that such things are acceptable.

Edited January 20, 2011 by eFestivals

[gratedenini]

If its percentages, let's take everyone's dna at birth, just in case they do something later in life. Let's hand control of our personal finances to the state so we can't buy anything dodgy. Let's fit everyone with tracking devices so we know where everyone is and when. Alternatively ee can look at the undercover police farrago and think whether we want to hand more power and influence to a police force that is out of control in this instance and lacking totally any sense of integrity whatsoever

[llcoolphil]

(I`ve had lash) .... I take it you`re one of those liberals then My Friend Phil?

[Purple Monkey]

I have - community service. And Feral Chile's suggestion about working with brain injured people would be brilliant. Prison will teach him nothing. Seeing what might have happened very much would

[eFestivals]

I suppose theres always been rotten apple Blue just as there has always been rotten apple everything

In the Ian Tomlinson case there's more than just one - there's the coppers who stood behind him when he did what he did and didn't condemn him or report him to superiors, and there's the rest of the legal system which has shown that such actions from coppers can happen without consequence.

Your comparison with The Blue is somewhat facetious No1 and in the abscence of Oafish to have studentory argument with.. I say.. you are deliberatley posting wafflins to provoke reaction! aye..

den

It's NOT facetious. They are both actions which could have lead to death - in fact, in one of those incidents a death DID occur but there was no legal consequence for the perpetrator, because he was a copper.

If you or I had beaten someone with a stick for no reason (remember, Tomlinson was not a protester!) we'd be up on an assault charge at the very minimum.

Edited January 24, 2011 by eFestivals

[gratedenini]

..... I did say I`d been on the lash..oway man!

However... I wouldn`t swap our Police or Justice system with anything else in the World community. Would you?

den

[eFestivals]

..... I did say I`d been on the lash..oway man!

However... I wouldn`t swap our Police or Justice system with anything else in the World community. Would you?

den

Why, do you believe the guff we as a country spout about it, that it's the best in the world?

It's no less corrupt and flawed than any other system, tho the corruption within our system is less obvious than it is in others. That actually ends up meaning that our own system is worse, because in openly corrupt systems corrupting the system is open to anyone, while within our own it's only possible to various exclusive clubs.

[worm]

It's no less corrupt and flawed than any other system, tho the corruption within our system is less obvious than it is in others.

[eFestivals]

That's applying our version of corruption to their systems of course, which is irrelevant to other cultures.

I get what you're saying and where you're coming from with that, but it's not outrageously wrong to think that elites of some kind are able to corrupt the legal systems within their own countries in the same way that elites are able to corrupt the legal system in this country.

[gratedenini]

I wasn`t thinking particulary about corruption..but of course it does exist (I myself having had personal experience of it within the system)...but corruption here doesn`t seem to be anywhere near as rife as it is in loads of other countries.. and likewise the overall conduct of our policemen.

Of course there are loads in incidents whuch you can draw upon and give examples of... but in other countries... demonstrators are f**kin shot at and knocked seven shades out of.

DEmonstarions are different now to ones which I attended in the 70s..with a lot more "infiltration" and subversiveness..and consequently the police have also changed since then.

Whilst I aint one of these nambi-pambis... I think the criticims levelled against our Justice system and police is sometimes too high.

den

[Purple Monkey]

I was discussing the theoretical possibility of a planet with out any national boudaries with a colleague the other day, and the first 'flaw' in the idea for them, was that (obviously.. ) everyone would want to come to the uk

some people really do believe this is as good as it gets

[gratedenini]

so 'we're' not as bad the worst of 'em..

whoop de doo

I don't know what others thoughts are on the story of cops who infiltrated a climate change group. I think it's about as underhand and dishonest as you can get really. Basically, don't trust anyone, ever, in your life...

nice :angry:

[worm]

but to always reach the conclusion that it's better here than anywhere else is just complacency

Edited January 25, 2011 by worm