March For The Alternative - London Saturday 26th March

[bombfrog]

I see you've lost non of your idiocy.

[bombfrog]

Tell you what, i'll give you a chance to list the achievements of peaceful protest before showing that not only are you thick.

[bombfrog]

I endorse violent protest.

[bombfrog]

Bob Diamond. He was a part of the cause, he's just as f**king stupid as the rest of them. He's just picked up his £10M+ pay packet. A pay packet from a bank that wouldn't even exist if the taxpayers hadn't bailed out other banks. Is Bob doing anything which any person with a modicum of financial nouce couldn't do? Nope. It's f**k all that's difficult, being a toe-rag salesman.

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

I endorse violent protest.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Unless you can gather a large enough crowd where the threat of unrest and the consequences of that unrest are so shocking and huge that politicians react immediately and bow to the masses demands then your only other option is the ballot box (do we want knee-jerk reactionaries as our mps?). That is our democracy.

[llcoolphil]

Haha okay, i'll clarify that to non violent towards people?

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

How is that a democracy though?

We give people a five year free pass to do whatever they want with next to no option to get rid of them if situations such as what have occur.

In the words of many a chant on Saturday, "that's not what democracy looks like."

[llcoolphil]

Like you I felt the evidence of real change through protest proved that only civil unrest led to change. I still hold this belief although I am not sure I can back it up with anything other than the poll tax riots as evidence (for the UK at least).

The students won’t change anything. Saturday won’t change anything. Wanton destruction by a minority hell bent on trouble for trouble's sake detracts from the message. If you are going to demonstrate violently you have to do it in huge numbers and make a real impact. Bravely smashing up a few windows, defacing the odd landmark and pissing on the Olympic clock does not make a point. (Oddly attacking the Price of Wales and his wife should have done but it didn’t).

Unless you can gather a large enough crowd where the threat of unrest and the consequences of that unrest are so shocking and huge that politicians react immediately and bow to the masses demands then your only other option is the ballot box (do we want knee-jerk reactionaries as our mps?). That is our democracy.

[llcoolphil]

Because you get to vote every few years and demonstrate to make your point and as long you are not one of those that take part in petty vandalism you won't get your head stoved in by the police.

Going back on my point of violent protest (as we are seeing in various parts of the world now) it seems that before we change

our demorcacy we have to descend in to anarchy. Is this what we really want?

As a matter of interest - what should our democracy look like?

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

You have to start somewhere and big crowds come from small crowds and the belief of standing together knowing the person stood next to you will stay standing next to you.

[whatmidlifecrisis?]

Seriously go and look at the afed website before falling into the trap of equating anarchy with a descent. Its a fully formed discourse - i dont necessarily advocate but its worth a read if only to make you think of alternatives

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Because you get to vote every few years and demonstrate to make your point and as long you are not one of those that take part in petty vandalism you won't get your head stoved in by the police.

Going back on my point of violent protest (as we are seeing in various parts of the world now) it seems that before we change

our demorcacy we have to descend in to anarchy. Is this what we really want?

As a matter of interest - what should our democracy look like?

[LondonTom]

No because he's stupid

Edited March 28, 2011 by LondonTom

[fur_q]

your pretty much allow free speech and to demonstrate as you please. , .

[bombfrog]

And your a bully, just like anyone else who wants violent protest here. There is absolutely 0 need for violent protest in this country, your pretty much allow free speech and to demonstrate as you please. Part of that is that you can't always get your own way, regardless of what you think, the current government was democratically elected according to the system we currently use.(and yes I will accept it has problems, but most complicated systems have some benefits and some drawbacks.) All the violence serves to do however small and however you want to justify it is alienate the average person against what ever cause its associated with. I don't know why everyone seems to think they should be allowed to get away with it, alot of you flare up when ever football violence hits and its not different in all honesty.

And maybe just maybe if you tried not calling people stupid and c**ts in your posts cos they have different opinions to you, or maybe they are not as knowledgeable on some topics as yourself they might just listen and take on board some of what you or anyone else says.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

^^ All of this.

We have a democracy in this country. We get a free and fair vote and we have the right to peaceful protest.

Just because you don't like the government that has been chosen democratically, doesn't give you the right tho throw your toys out of the pram and go round smashing up shop windows. All it does is harm your cause by losing the support of the normal voting public.

But then, those that do it aren't really grown up enough to understand that, otherwise they wouldn't do it. So the best thing is probably to let them do it then lock them up. At least they're off the streets then.

[Roonwilldo]

Id say you are about as 100% wrong on that as you could be. It defeated Hitler. IRA violence forced the british government to the negotiating table. The french revolution wasn't about sitting round having a nice chat. The poll tax riot brought down thatcher. Standing toe to toe with the national front chased them off our streets. Setting fire to toxteth forced Heseltine to invest millions in liverpool.

A million people wandering peacefully round london didnt stop the iraq war

[llcoolphil]

^^ All of this.

We have a democracy in this country. We get a free and fair vote and we have the right to peaceful protest.

Just because you don't like the government that has been chosen democratically, doesn't give you the right tho throw your toys out of the pram and go round smashing up shop windows. All it does is harm your cause by losing the support of the normal voting public.

But then, those that do it aren't really grown up enough to understand that, otherwise they wouldn't do it. So the best thing is probably to let them do it then lock them up. At least they're off the streets then.

[Roonwilldo]

We don't have a democracy that's the point.

To me, a democratic society would be somewhere, first of all, where no-one can get in with only 34% of the vote, be them Labour, Con or even Green. It shouldn't happen, simply because they haven't got the most votes.

Second of all, a democratic society would be somewhere, as stated above, you have accountability over the people that supposedly represent you, at all times. This, we don't have.

Third of all, a democratic society would be somewhere where the police are independent from the state, which we have seen is completely not true.

This country and the system needs a complete democratic overhaul. I've no qualms in admitting I am politically alligned to the left (not even to Labour currently, no-one represents me) but i'd have no problems accepting any fair, democratic system with anybody in power, that followed these rules.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

No - we have a parliamentary liberal democracy. Whilst that may not be as deomocratic (in the truest sense of the word) as either you or I may like, it is complete nonsense to suggest that we do not have a democratic system in the UK.

[Roonwilldo]

You just said, it's not democratic in the truest sense of the word. So how is it complete nonsense?

[Ed209]

Maybe a dumb question, but would the Arcadia group have to foot the bill of damage to their stores (either directly or through higher insurance premiums), or is someone else picking up the tab?

Cus if its the former then any money they take out of Philip Green's pocket is OK by me.

[bombfrog]

We don't have a democracy that's the point.

To me, a democratic society would be somewhere, first of all, where no-one can get in with only 34% of the vote, be them Labour, Con or even Green. It shouldn't happen, simply because they haven't got the most votes.

[llcoolphil]

Everybody eligible person in this country had the opportunity to vote. 34.9% of the population chose not to do what people in other countries would literally give their lives to have the opportunities to do. Scumbags.

Of those that did vote, they couldn't agree and there wasn't a winner. So, the only fair things that could have happened, happened. A coalition was formed out of two parties which between them received 52% of the vote.

I'm sick of people complaining about this and somehow saying that it's not somehow fair or democratic.

We've got a government made up of parties that the majority of people voted for making cuts that any right thinking person would do given the amount of debt that previous governments got us into.

If you don't agree then that's your prerogative, but understand that you're in the minority and that the rest of us are sick of your moaning.

Edited March 28, 2011 by llcoolphil