France Burqa ban

[guypjfreak]

the ban comes in force to day personally i agree with this but wot do you think ?

[The Nal]

I’m totally against the ban. Its an infringement of peoples civil rights.

If people believe in an invisible makey up man in the sky based on a book whos translation isn’t certain and was written by humans hundreds of years ago, I’ve no problem with them making further tits of themselves by dressing up in silly clothes in public. It’s a free world. People should be free to make dickheads out of themselves if they wish.

Edited April 11, 2011 by The Nal

[worm]

I think it's up to France.

[t8yman]

I think its disgraceful, even as a god basher myself - I believe people should be free to wear whatever they like.

[gratedenini]

I’m totally against the ban. Its an infringement of peoples civil rights.

If people believe in an invisible makey up man in the sky based on a book whos translation isn’t certain and was written by humans hundreds of years ago, I’ve no problem with them making further tits of themselves by dressing up in silly clothes in public. It’s a free world. People should be free to make dickheads out of themselves if they wish.

[The Nal]

Nalbandian,my likkle marrer--if you invited me over to your once affluent country (well for 3 yrs anyway)...and I got there and you said to me "Noy Den, ma wee little twat of man sure ye are,right enough...noy when ye over here in Oirland one thing yer must be doyen is te be sayin to be sure at the end of every third of ye wee sententences Denni lad..d`yer foller? --just like Jim Yer a Bath Stead McDonald from Coranation Street, to be sure.....or else ye might well be hauled off by the Garda Den,do yer foller?"

Well, naturally i`d be thinking what the f**k is this all about..BUT... because i was in your country--i would simply abide by your laws. That is the right thing to do.

The frogs are quite nationalistic..and have seen (in their eyes) a threat to that and have taken this step,rightly or wrongly to implement this ban.

If you go to Iraq or the like--you would expect the woman to be covered up in such a way--it is their way--fair enough..but it isn`t the french way, or the English way etc.

I`m a massive believer that you abide by the rules of the country you are in..even if for instance you were born here of foreign parents..you should still abide by the rules here and not the ones where your parents come from, to be sure....

human rights me arse...

den

[worm]

But isn’t freedom of religious expression part of modern democracy?

[The Nal]

An autonomous nation having the freedom to create and exhibit its own laws is also part of modern democracy.

[worm]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/5616629/Muslim-leaders-condemn-Sarkozy-over-burqa-ban.html

It's gaining support from both right and left groups over here too.

[worm]

True yeah. Can be part of a dictatorship too though. Iran stone women to death. I don’t respect their right to do that. Or Americans giving away free guns with satellite dishes.

[The Nal]

The reason for it being banned in France is because it is a symbol of inequality, sexism and subjugation.

I can see why they've done it, I don't know if it's the best thing to do though.

Edited April 11, 2011 by The Nal

[lifelessfool]

is it only the burqa that has been banned?

Edited April 11, 2011 by lifelessfool

[Ed209]

I’m totally against the ban. Its an infringement of peoples civil rights.

If people believe in an invisible makey up man in the sky based on a book whos translation isn’t certain and was written by humans hundreds of years ago, I’ve no problem with them making further tits of themselves by dressing up in silly clothes in public. It’s a free world. People should be free to make dickheads out of themselves if they wish.

[rabid]

The reason for it being banned in France is because it is a symbol of inequality, sexism and subjugation.

I can see why they've done it, I don't know if it's the best thing to do though.

[The Nal]

and here's the actual problem. In many cases it's not their free choice to wear one. It's a choice dictated to them by their husband, families and the male population of their social peers. I wonder how many Muslim woman, deep down, have been hoping for this law for some time.

Edited April 11, 2011 by The Nal

[MrZigster]

...If I want to go to France and dress up as Spiderman and head down to the local hypermarché for a bag of frogs legs and a pair of snails tits or whatever, I would be able to. Im covering myself up with that too. But that’s not illegal in France. Either is travelling on the bus dressed up up as Batman with a little midget for Robin.

[The Nal]

Now that would be a fantastically surreal way for people to protest, without getting arrested, no?

"It's not a burqua, it's a fancy dress costume officer".

[worm]

Yeah I understand but why don’t they ban all religion then if they want to remove all symbols of inequality, sexism and subjugation.

[The Nal]

it totally conforms with France's attempts at a secular society, which in general I applaud

[worm]

Thats a point and Im all for that but they havent banned Catholic priests robes in public. Or any other religion. Theyre playing with fire.

[worm]

it's not anti-muslim though, it's because of their secular stance. And because they are secular, they don't show any bias. If they allowed it, it would be anti every other religion. It works very well in their schools imo

Edited April 11, 2011 by worm

[grumpyhack]

I've really struggled with this one and find it a challenge to what I thought were my 'liberal' (with a small l) views.

Generally I think people should be free to wear what they want, as long as it doesn't offend public decency - so streaking is a bit of a no, no as many people would be offended. Covering up is the opposite and, in theory, shouldn't offend anyone.

I can appreciate that occasionally there might be security issues - for example banks, for understandable reasons, aren't keen on people going in wearing full crash helmets. So a opposing anything that fully covers the head and, effectively, hides identity could be a security issue in some circumstances. However I don't think security has been advanced in France as a reason for the law.

If you are going to have a fully secular society are you also going to ban any other religious garb - such as nun's habits, priests robes, the hats worn by some orthodox Jews or even a crucifix worn by many people on a chain around their necks?

I've even struggled with the argument that women who cover up aren't doing it of their own free will but as a result of pressure from men in their society - in which case the law could be see as liberating. Except I don't really think that holds water because many women who cover up may be doing it from their own personally held beliefs - nothing to do with pressure from males.

So, the end of this discussion I've been having with myself in writing this is that on balance I think it's probably an unfair and unreasonable law. But I'd like to hear the opinions of a few more French women who choose to cover up before reaching a final conclusion.

[llcoolphil]

Its about the subjugation of women and i applaud its aspiration. However, it seems a fairly symbolic act and im not convinced that further marginalising through criminalisation an already marginalised community assists in addressing that subjugation.

[worm]

Its about the subjugation of women and i applaud its aspiration. However, it seems a fairly symbolic act and im not convinced that further marginalising through criminalisation an already marginalised community assists in addressing that subjugation.

[Ed209]

I get ye Denilson sure. But isn’t freedom of religious expression part of modern democracy? If I want to go to France and dress up as Spiderman and head down to the local hypermarché for a bag of frogs legs and a pair of snails tits or whatever, I would be able to. Im covering myself up with that too. But that’s not illegal in France. Either is travelling on the bus dressed up up as Batman with a little midget for Robin.