The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

Mentioned a while back that our union rep was talking about the " possibility " AFTER the general election of the Unions coming in behind NS in Scotland. I have no idea who the attached bloke is but he is hearing the same thing and there is more on it on google. We already know that Jim Murphy was not their man and I think the direction Labour are taking that we have been blethering about here is starting to piss them off. Trident, austerity, immigration and Labour Cllr`s urging folk to vote Tory to keep the SNP out...as LJS pointed out way back, the red rosette pinned on a monkey days are long gone.

http://nicktyrone.com/unions-scotland-turn-labour-support-snp/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11230007/Len-McCluskey-Labour-will-lose-general-election-if-Jim-Murphy-is-elected-Scottish-leader.html

[Comfy Bean]

One of the great myths. Have you all the things the Tories voted against in these 4 years?

Latest polling shows the Tories could be wiped out in Scotland in May

[eFestivals]

One of the great myths. Have you all the things the Tories voted against in these 4 years?

I do know there was no "grand coalition" ... but for four years they passed tory-approved policies, and that has lead you to believe they're left wing.

Which makes me laugh.

[eFestivals]

Do you think Neil will cease banging on about this now?

Do you think you can admit the SNP's proposed cut was free money for the rich now?

Now the only party that has to defend its corporation tax cuts is Labour.

So there is something wrong with the SNP's proposed corp tax cuts after all, after all the times you've defended them? PMSL.

Meanwhile, Labour only need to defend any proposal for change from the situation now - which they've been doing for years by having no proposal to change it.

Corp tax has to be at some level, if we're going to have corp tax. Personally, i'd like to see it far higher, tho there's other ways of taxing the rich - which Labour does have policies for, while the SNP still want to rich to keep on running away with the money which has dropped us in the shit in the first place.

Only when the SNP start to say "tax the rich" can they be rightfully placed as anywhere to the left. It's not happened yet.

But if it does, I'm sure you'll claim them as a highly principled party. ...

- So principled they wanted lax-er bank regulation, until they wanted tighter regulation;

- so principled they thought Sterling a millstone, and then their salvation.

- so principled they wanted to give money to the rich, and then they didn't.

Might it be they're just another power hungry party, who'll say anything at all to try and attract voters on-side? Why yes it is.

Meanwhile, they remain fixed to the one principle they have, of breaking up the UK, even against the will of the people of Scotland. Which is what they'll try to do within Westminster, which makes them unsuitable for any party to deal with.

Vote SNP, get marginalised.

You don't believe me. We'll find out who's nailed it on 8th May.

[eFestivals]

Latest polling shows the Tories could be wiped out in Scotland in May

Latest polling shows the Tories will still be governing Scotland all thru May and beyond.

Oh look, you can't wipe them out in Scotland at all.

Unless you change your approach.

Edited March 4, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Do you think Neil will cease banging on about this now?

I've just noticed that the SNP have said their corp tax reduction plans were the very thing I said they were, and the very thing that the yes-ers here have spent the last year saying they weren't - a race to the bottom.

Why is it that non-SNP voters can see what the SNP are much better than their own supporters?

READ THE FECKIN' POLICIES!!!!

[Comfy Bean]

I've just noticed that the SNP have said their corp tax reduction plans were the very thing I said they were, and the very thing that the yes-ers here have spent the last year saying they weren't - a race to the bottom.Why is it that non-SNP voters can see what the SNP are much better than their own supporters? :lol:READ THE FECKIN' POLICIES!!!!

Are you re-inventing the past here mate?

I'm referring to your first paragraph.

[LJS]

I've just noticed that the SNP have said their corp tax reduction plans were the very thing I said they were, and the very thing that the yes-ers here have spent the last year saying they weren't - a race to the bottom.

Why is it that non-SNP voters can see what the SNP are much better than their own supporters?

READ THE FECKIN' POLICIES!!!!

[MichaelsBeard]

GERS figures out -

Scottish deficit in 2013-14 up, even including NS oil share, was 50% higher than UK's: 6.4% of GDP to 4.1%

Deficit on all spending vs revenue in Scotland 2013-14 reaches £12.4bn, or 8.1% of gdp. Equivalent UK figure: 5.6%.

Taxes raised in Scotland £400 higher per head than UK average. But spending in Scotland £1200 higher.

With full-fiscal autonomy Scotland would have to fund a deficit of £12.4 billion by borrowing, higher taxes and lower public spending.

Still want to scrap Barnett and have full fiscal autonomy?

[eFestivals]

I see that Scotland thinks about the same about the EU as England does.

Most Scots think job recruiters should give priority to British people over immigrants, a poll for the BBC shows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31815393

Yes, the percentages are slightly different (by 9%), but Scotland gets a different EU narrative to England and that will impact onto opinions.

[eFestivals]

GERS figures out -

Scottish deficit in 2013-14 up, even including NS oil share, was 50% higher than UK's: 6.4% of GDP to 4.1%

Deficit on all spending vs revenue in Scotland 2013-14 reaches £12.4bn, or 8.1% of gdp. Equivalent UK figure: 5.6%.

Taxes raised in Scotland £400 higher per head than UK average. But spending in Scotland £1200 higher.

With full-fiscal autonomy Scotland would have to fund a deficit of £12.4 billion by borrowing, higher taxes and lower public spending.

Still want to scrap Barnett and have full fiscal autonomy?

And that's for 2012-13, a time of record oil prices.

The Scottish govt's own page for these numbers is here, BTW - cos any minute now they'll be a Nat along to slag off the factual reporting by the mainstream media, because Nats have an aversion to facts, even when they're the Scottish govt's - the SNP's - own stated facts.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/03/1422

The 2014-15 numbers will be worse yet again - hugely so - because the oil revenues have fallen off a cliff.

And Nicola says "spend loads more money Scotland doesn't have".

And the Nats say "it's not Scotland's debt, it's rUK's debts and we're not paying any of it".

And the Nats still say "Scotland subsidies the UK".

And then the Nats wonder why England isn't too keen on the SNP.

[eFestivals]

and PS ... excluding the off-shore oil revenues, Scotland's on-shore revenues have now fallen a chunk below (-0.3%) the UK average (so an even bigger chunk below the English average, as nats love this country-by-country stuff).

Including oil revenues, Scotland is spending 14.8% more than it raises in revenues, which means a 14.8% cut in public services for "full fiscal autonomy" - a BIGGER CUT THAN THE TORIES PLAN!!!!

Vote SNP, vote yourself poorer.

[eFestivals]

I wonder where the resident Nats are today? I'm looking forwards to their take on Scotland's finances.

Or perhaps not. We all know what they'll say, they'll say "it's all Westminster's fault".

[tolywoly]

WOS will be racking up the hits today, will folk desperately seeking some imaginative spin on the numbers they can regurgitate that 'proves' Scotland is actually better than England afterall.

I note the Scottish Government are headlining with 'Scotland pays £400 more in tax than UK average'. Forgetting about that E for Expenditure in GERS that shows spending is £1200 higher.

[eFestivals]

I note the Scottish Government are headlining with 'Scotland pays £400 more in tax than UK average'. Forgetting about that E for Expenditure in GERS that shows spending is £1200 higher.

I'd say the most important thing in there is that without the oil, tax raising in Scotland has fallen below the UK average - because one of the regular claims has always been "even without the oil we raise the same tax as all the rest".

(so because of the year's delay in getting the numbers from GERS, it turns out they were telling porkies. )

It means that there's now no meaningful stat that can be plucked out of there to say that Scotland reaches the UK average or better. And as everyone already knows the next GERS will be worse (2014-15), and very likely the one after that (2016, the year Scotland would have gone indie) worse still.

[eFestivals]

WOS will be racking up the hits today, will folk desperately seeking some imaginative spin on the numbers they can regurgitate that 'proves' Scotland is actually better than England afterall.

GERS is dead to WoS, it seems - not a whisper about it.

Anyone might think they're trying to mislead people, just as they did in the Little Blue Book - where they conveniently 'forgot' that the 2012-13 GERS numbers had been published and instead used the better 2011-12 numbers to create a false impression.

[MichaelsBeard]

Wings over Somerset tweet 20 mins ago -

'GERS figures comment: that's why you have an oil fund. Thank you'.

Hahaha! I don't know where to start.

Edited March 11, 2015 by MichaelsBeard

[eFestivals]

Wings over Somerset tweet 20 mins ago -

'GERS figures comment: that's why you have an oil fund. Thank you'.

Hahaha! I don't know where to start.

And neither do WoS, very obviously - else they'd have come up with something better than a 100% worthless comment.

[LJS]

I wonder where the resident Nats are today? I'm looking forwards to their take on Scotland's finances.

Or perhaps not. We all know what they'll say, they'll say "it's all Westminster's fault".

Working till 7 tonight Neil, won't be home till after 8.

[gary1979666]

Isn't it all down to Scotland paying for London's trainset?

[eFestivals]

Isn't it all down to Scotland paying for London's trainset?

Nope, because the GERS methodology excludes the "national projects" that the SNP believe Scotland shouldn't be contributing to.

And because it doesn't operate that methodology in reverse where Scotland benefits from English money spent in Scotland, it paints a better picture for Scotland than is really the case.

[gary1979666]

I know....was partaking in a bit of Nat baiting.

[LJS]

This neatly sums up my take on all the Gers excitement...

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/03/11/patience/

[eFestivals]

This neatly sums up my take on all the Gers excitement...

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/03/11/patience/

I was hoping you might have an engaging intellectual take on it, and not a vacuous comedy sketch.

Try this one instead, by an economic literate...

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/

It even includes a pretty deficit graph, and just to help those who still have trouble with complex pretty pictures, it's simplified things with 5 year and ten year averages too - you know, to disprove the myth that a couple of good years means that everything is OK in Scotland as you were claiming up until just yesterday.

Edited March 12, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

The SNP have a new policy - since just yesterday. Have you been keeping up with events, LJS and comfy?

They no longer want "full fiscal autonomy" (FFA) for Scotland.

Instead, they now accept that Scotland lives off English money, and will need to do so until it's possible to maintain Scottish public spending AND balance the books via revenue raised in Scotland.

(just in case you think that's a pisstake, it's not. You thinking it's a pisstake is you having just realised how laughable the SNP are!)

Which translates as English money for the bad years, and Scotland keeping all its money in the good years.

And this from the same party which just 6 months ago said that Scotland should be independent.