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The Dirty Independence Question


Kyelo

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Neil, neil, you've got so excited making your little point that you forgot where you started.

It started when I suggested "Any deal might, for example, include ruling out a referendum in the lifetime of the parliament."

I have clearly explained how she could do that - of course if she ruled it out now that would be stupid - about as stupid as ruling out trying to reach consensus after the election.

But you've said previously no politician had the right to rule it out, ever.

You've said previously it's the sovereign choice of the Scottish people and for no one else to make. And now you say it's not.

Can you please make up your mind? :lol:

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I think you are missing DomDom's point - it's not about that - It's a lot to do with the failings of Scottish Labour - I've already said if I lived in England in a Labour/Tory marginal, I would vote Labour.

what "failings of Scottish Labour"?

The snippers have spent the last 6 moths telling us that there is no Scottish Labour, there is only the branch office of a London party.

Are you saying you like that London party after all?

If you do, can I suggest you vote for it? :)

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Scots have been lying and there's tories in Scotland after all?

Who'd have thought it? :P

As you well know, Neil. I have never denied the existence of the rare Torius Scotticus. It once appeared close to extinction but increasingly its cries can be heard echoing through the Glens again.

They seem to have managed to evolve & be seen as slightly different from the more numerous Anclicus Thatcheritus Bastardus.

There leader is fairly popular & comes across & as witty & personable.

Still wouldn't vote for them but it's no surprise that they are staging a wee bit of a revival especially with so many No voters looking for a new habitat.

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Not at all but the question was asked. And I think an entire state being irrelevant is wrong. And I hope the Welsh and Irish wake up to that too. It's their own fault if they don't.

We will.

Your whole idea is based in a false idea. :rolleyes:

There is only one "state" in a UK election, and that's called the UK.

The govt of the UK is formed from who a vote from around the UK returns to parliament. Returning an MP to parliament gives that MP no right to be any part of the govt.

It's Scotland's own fault if they wish to vote to marginalise themselves from the mainstream political process. It's Scotland's doing and no one else's.

But don't let that stop you from repeating an ignorant myth.

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I have clearly explained how she could do that - of course if she ruled it out now that would be stupid - about as stupid as ruling out trying to reach consensus after the election.

But you've said previously no politician had the right to rule it out, ever.

You've said previously it's the sovereign choice of the Scottish people and for no one else to make. And now you say it's not.

Can you please make up your mind? :lol:

Look neil you mistakenly missed out the second part of my post.

"I have clearly explained how she could do that - of course if she ruled it out now that would be stupid - about as stupid as ruling out trying to reach consensus after the election. "

How careless

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Your whole idea is based in a false idea. :rolleyes:

There is only one "state" in a UK election, and that's called the UK.

The govt of the UK is formed from who a vote from around the UK returns to parliament. Returning an MP to parliament gives that MP no right to be any part of the govt.

It's Scotland's own fault if they wish to vote to marginalise themselves from the mainstream political process. It's Scotland's doing and no one else's.

But don't let that stop you from repeating an ignorant myth.

If "There is only one "state" in a UK election, and that's called the UK." how can any part "vote to marginalise themselves from the mainstream political process"

We are not marginalising ourselves. The Labour party are trying to marginalise us.

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So many missed points.

The chief among them being us getting the voice we want.

You get the voice you want via the MPs you return, exactly the same as anyone else. :rolleyes:

Dumb questions seems to be the order of the day too.

but not any dumb statements, where Scots say they think they should have mor3e rights for their MPs than anyone else does? :lol:

I want people to take some fucking responsibility.

Perhaps start with taking responsibility for what you're voting for? :lol:

Voters here will do that.

Like fuck they will. :lol:

You've just proven that they won't.

They actually want the better together thing to be true, and are voting to see if it happens.

PMSL ... yeah, the 45% have given up indie, which is why Sturgeon has been happy to rule it out forever. :lol:

Edited by eFestivals
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what "failings of Scottish Labour"?

The snippers have spent the last 6 moths telling us that there is no Scottish Labour, there is only the branch office of a London party.

Are you saying you like that London party after all?

If you do, can I suggest you vote for it? :)

I think the UK Labour party has moved someway back from the worst betrayals of the Blair Brown years.

You well know what my issues with party in Scotland are. I have already wasted much of my time trying to explain these to you but you jut arbitrarily decided i hate them.

You really think I'm going to wast my time again?

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Scottish Labour lied outright, and now the Westminster party want nothing to do with it, relying on relics to win votes.

myths myths and more myths.

Cos Miliband made clear that he's dropped Scottish Labour last night, didn't he, when he sided with another party in Scotland in their place. :lol:

They're a parasite feeding on pensioners here. Good riddance.

Scotland produces shit politicians?

Then you're in deep trouble if you get your dream. The Scots aren't exceptional after all, oh dear. :lol:

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PMSL - yeah, because nation pitted against nation in a race to the bottom will make our lives so much better.

PS, can we have that yearly £10Bn back, our NHS is a bit short? Thanks. :)

Only in your twisted mind does nationalist parties mean pitting them against each other. Truly showing your colours with every post.

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Look neil you mistakenly missed out the second part of my post.

"I have clearly explained how she could do that - of course if she ruled it out now that would be stupid - about as stupid as ruling out trying to reach consensus after the election. "

How careless

you've explained how she can in practice rule it out.

But you've not said why you think it's right if she did, because you've previously said she has no right to rule it out.

What aren't you getting about the conflicting things you've said?

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Only in your twisted mind does nationalist parties mean pitting them against each other. Truly showing your colours with every post.

A dictionary definition of nationalism:

an extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.

Definitely an attitude to discourage. ALL nationalist political parties try and foster and exploit a sense of patriotic superiority. All of them, including the Tories.

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you've explained how she can in practice rule it out.

But you've not said why you think it's right if she did, because you've previously said she has no right to rule it out.

What aren't you getting about the conflicting things you've said?

Are you really trying to be stupid today? cos you are doing really well.

She can't rule it our indefinitely - even you must accept that from a party whose goal is independence. That is completely different from saying it must be in every manifesto.

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Only in your twisted mind does nationalist parties mean pitting them against each other. Truly showing your colours with every post.

in your own words you've said you want "a strong voice for Scotland".

More strength for one means less strength for another, so either the English have willingly accept being your bitch, or yes, we're in a self-interested-only fight to the death.

what is it about the nationalism you want that you're not understanding?

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A dictionary definition of nationalism:

an extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.

Definitely an attitude to discourage. ALL nationalist political parties try and foster and exploit a sense of patriotic superiority. All of them, including the Tories.

another dictionary definition of nationalism

advocacy of political independence for a particular country.

I believe in civic nationalism

  1. Civic nationalism is a kind of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalismcompatible with values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights. Ernest Renan and John Stuart Mill are often thought to be earlycivic nationalists.
Edited by LJS
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