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The Dirty Independence Question


Kyelo

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MPs in the South East region[edit] Affiliation Members Conservative Party 74 Labour Party 4 Liberal Democrats 3 Green Party 1 Independent 1 Speaker 1 Total 84 MP Constituency Party In constituency since MPs in the South West region[edit] Affiliation Members Conservative Party 36 Liberal Democrats 15 Labour Party 4 Total 55 MP Constituency Party In constituency sin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_for_constituencies_in_England_2010%E2%80%9315

oops, cut & paste didn't work too well there

So, south east & south west 139 mp's

Conservative 110

Labour 8

Lib dem 18

I think I'm right in saying these areas include all the cities we mentioned.

Yeah, we're all in it together

Edited by LJS
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I'm not certain but I think London might have more than 8 labour mps, or is that not in the south?

It's not included in my figures

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How convenient to exclude a southern region that doesn't fit your narrative...

The rural/urban split is not denied by anyone.....apart from you it seems.

apart from the north east, the north west & yorkshire, London is the only part of Engalnd with more Labour than tory MP's.

So i missed out london -

Affiliation Members Labour Party 38 Conservative Party 28 Liberal Democrats 7 Total 73

But I also missed out the East of England

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 52 Liberal Democrats 4 Labour Party 2 Total 58

The east midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 30 Labour Party 16 Total 46

The west Midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 33 Labour Party 24 Liberal Democrats 2 Total 59

We are a divided country

The Labour part suffers most because there aren't enough seats in the north for it to win without votes from people in the South who increasingly have different priorities.

The game's over Russy. It's a matter of when, not if

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apart from the north east, the north west & yorkshire, London is the only part of Engalnd with more Labour than tory MP's.

So i missed out london -

Affiliation Members Labour Party 38 Conservative Party 28 Liberal Democrats 7 Total 73

But I also missed out the East of England

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 52 Liberal Democrats 4 Labour Party 2 Total 58

The east midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 30 Labour Party 16 Total 46

The west Midlands

Affiliation Members Conservative Party 33 Labour Party 24 Liberal Democrats 2 Total 59

We are a divided country

The Labour part suffers most because there aren't enough seats in the north for it to win without votes from people in the South who increasingly have different priorities.

The game's over Russy. It's a matter of when, not if

so some parts of the country are labour and some are tory. Mainly split between rural and urban areas.

So what's new?

You seem to want a one party state. That's worked out well for other countries in the past.

Edited by russycarps
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Maybe you guys who are endlessly telling us what is happening in scotland, might like to read this

It's from the Guardian which last time I checked was not pro indy - Oh & just in case it is too strange for you, it involves a politician interacting with real people - not party activists or invited focus groups - you won't find stuff like this on below the line comments in the guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/01/scots-out-in-force-edinburgh-sturgeon-snp-election-labour

No mention of Ed's trip to Scotland, where the party which is desperate to have a deal with Ed had their supporters protesting against Ed, shouting "red tories out".

That says to me that the SNP supporters are dead keen on a deal with the tories, and there;s been you saying it's impossible. Fancy that.

:P

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Save me the bother Kaos, excluding London, how many Labour vs tories are there in Essex, Sussex, Hampshire, Devon, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Berkshire, Bedfordshire. & whatever other counties I have missed from the South of England,

There are some pretty big Urban areas in these counties & precious few labour MP's

the union is over

What you mean is that you don't accept democracy. :lol:

You simply don't accept the right of others within the UK to vote differently to how you'd like them to vote. And you think the way to get a 'better democracy' is to redraw the lines to give you the result you want. It's laughable.

What about those in Scotland who don't want the SNP redrawing the lines to escape the SNP, just as you redraw the lines to escape the tories. Is that allowed, LJS?

Or is re-drawing the lines something that's only allowed to happen to your own rules? Why, yes it is. Devolution within Scotland is a red line to the SNP.

Me me me, and fuck everyone else. It's a tory as it gets.

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Yes, & Portsmouth, Plymouth,Reading etc.

Reading is pretty tiny as UK cities go.

But it's one of the very few Southern cities with an industrial heritage, and it just about always (perhaps always? I've lived and worked there, but don't know the history perfectly) has o0ne or more Labour MPs.

The south west is very tory/UKIP, btw. You know, like the most remote parts of Scotland are the parts most removed from the central belt's politics.

Who'd have thought it eh? A diversity of political views with a country. :lol:

But not the new one party State of Scotlandshire, where no tory has ever breathed, and no tory is allowed representation. Because you say so, and you'll redraw the lines to ensure it can't happen. :rolleyes:

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How convenient to exclude a southern region that doesn't fit your narrative...

The rural/urban split is not denied by anyone.....apart from you it seems.

It's because there's no city/rural split in the new one-party state.

Those snippers have been out murdering all those of different views. It's just not acceptable to have differing political views within any nation state. :lol:

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Nationalist paranoia is out in force again. They can't lose an election, it can only be cheated from them.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

What has happened to the Guardian :( What a dreadful article. Disappointed you are lapping shit like this up sir.

I promise to report back tomorrow if I see any snipsters hiding in bushes taking photos of vans or pieces of paper................. :lol:

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What has happened to the Guardian :( What a dreadful article. Disappointed you are lapping shit like this up sir.

I promise to report back tomorrow if I see any snipsters hiding in bushes taking photos of vans or pieces of paper................. :lol:

have the police issued that warning? Why, yes they have.

It's news, what's your problem with it?

You have a problem with the reporting of the paranoia, but not the paranoia itself. :lol:

Meanwhile, there's a wealth of evidence of snippers hiding in bushes taking photos, and a number of candidates have made complaints about it ... tho I guess as they're not snippers that are complaining they must all be liars, yeah? :rolleyes:

Edited by eFestivals
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Murphy ... his expenses scam ...

I know this is old, but it's only just come to my attention that ....

After the tories, the SNP were the next party with the biggest proportion of expenses fiddlers.

It's yet another place where the snipper's myth and claimed justification for voting SNP doesn't match the real facts.

Edited by eFestivals
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Haven't the previous 300-odd pages of this thread already established that there's two realities - real reality, and pro-independence groupthink reality. In the latter every criticism of the SNP is simply evidence of the establishment bias against them, and every story about everyone else is irrefutable proof of their contempt for the Scottish working man.

Comfy's reply above is the default 'non story' response from the Good Nationalist Guidebook.

  • Upvote 1
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Nationalist paranoia is out in force again. They can't lose an election, it can only be cheated from them.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/nationalist-scotland-voters-photograph-ballot-papers-general-election

Debunked propaganda.

Police Scotland have rubbished claims that an official warning was issued because of fears of “threatening behaviour” from SNP supporters at the polls.

A media frenzy was whipped up this morning over allegations that the police and the Electoral Commission were expecting trouble because of an online campaign asking people to watch out for poll irregularities.

“Radical SNP activists could cause chaos at polls” trumpeted the Daily Express while the Daily Record and Daily Mail claimed the police had warned of “threatening behaviour” by SNP supporters who planned to follow ballot boxes to counting centres.

However a police spokesman said yesterday: “We have issued no warnings.”

http://www.thenational.scot/news/police-scotland-deny-unionist-reports-they-warned-of-snp-aggression-at-polls.2731

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Hmmmm .... because it's impossible for The National(ist) to be the one printing lies, yeah? The SNP only ever have truth on their side. :lol:

I don't know which story is true and I really don't care .... but ....

Haven't the previous 300-odd pages of this thread already established that there's two realities - real reality, and pro-independence groupthink reality. In the latter every criticism of the SNP is simply evidence of the establishment bias against them, and every story about everyone else is irrefutable proof of their contempt for the Scottish working man.

Comfy's reply above is the default 'non story' response from the Good Nationalist Guidebook.

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I thought I'd put this here as it is of purely Scottish interest. As it is from behind the Herald's paywall, I have posted it in full & not linked it cos I'm on my phone & I can't be arsed.

This is the man who stood against Murphy. Definitely to the left of Jim (not difficult)

Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothians, has resigned from Labour's shadow cabinet in the Scottish Parliament

In a statement he said that Thursday's election was a "disaster" for the Scottish Labour Party, with their problems "wide ranging and deep".

He said: "Radical solutions are needed and can only be implemented following a full, frank, open and democratic debate led by our loyal and hard working, committed party members - a centralised fix just won't do.

"I want to play a full part in that debate and in rebuilding our party from the grassroots up.

"I feel I can only do so if free rom the constraints of being a member of the Shadow Team. I have therefore today submitted my resignation from the Shadow Cabinet."

"I want to thank the Labour leadership team for the opportunity to serve the party and the movement I love."

He added that he would "redouble" his efforts working on behalf of the Lothian region.

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I'm thinking the next GE will have significant Labour, LibDem & Tory representation from Scotland in Westminster.

Is Alex playing Dave or is Dave playing Alex? Or, put another way, who has the most power to play against the other?

All Chicken Dave needs to do is to say he respects how Scots have voted, and while he can't give them more money - a majority of the uK voted for austerity, don't forget - he can give them some of their other wants.

Which of course will be some amount of FFA.

It won't be all (because that then has Scotland with nothing to lose by going indie), but it will be enough to expose what the SNP have been wanting and to inflict some of the pain of the SNP's want onto Scotland.

Will the SNP's vote stand up when there's either bigger cuts in public services than the tories would have given you, or with tax rises imposed by the SNP (not that this would happen; they can try to blame cuts on others, they can't blame tax rises they impose on others).

I suspect that'll see around half of the SNP's support drain away and a revival of the other parties.

It ain't all over till the fat small lady sings is screaming. :P

Edited by eFestivals
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Has anyone read St Nicola's article in the Guardian (or Observer)?

She wades right in, making the SNP = Scotland.

And then she aims at where she can see the biggest crack, and hammers in nthe wedge to try to create the biggest divide.

And that's over the EU, where she (again) demands that to leave the EU each 'nation' of the UK has to vote to leave.

I look forwards to the next indyref, where St Nicola will show she's not a duplicitous manipulative unprincipled popularist by having rules that say each of the 34 regions in Scotland must vote yes for Scottish independence to happen. :lol:

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Has anyone read St Nicola's article in the Guardian (or Observer)?

She wades right in, making the SNP = Scotland.

And then she aims at where she can see the biggest crack, and hammers in nthe wedge to try to create the biggest divide.

And that's over the EU, where she (again) demands that to leave the EU each 'nation' of the UK has to vote to leave.

I look forwards to the next indyref, where St Nicola will show she's not a duplicitous manipulative unprincipled popularist by having rules that say each of the 34 regions in Scotland must vote yes for Scottish independence to happen. :lol:

What a fatuous point.

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What a fatuous point.

so Nicola 's was too?

If all interested parties have to agree on leaving the EU, why don't all interested parties have to agree to indie in the same way?

Why is a one-vote majority enough for one thing but not for the other?

Why does democracy equal what Nicola says it does when it's working to her advantage but no one else's?

You've obviously given up on democracy for the one party state. FFS. :rolleyes:

And you wonder why I laugh at the double standards, the self-interest and not democratic interest, and the dupliciousness.

Get back to me when you and Nicola finds a principle that isn't the me-me-me of Thatcherism.

Edited by eFestivals
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Where to Buy the Alpha Heat Vest The Alpha Heat Vest can be purchased from various sources, both online and offline. Here’s a breakdown of the best places to buy one. a. Official Website One of the best places to purchase an Alpha Heat Vest is directly from the manufacturer’s official website. Buying from the official site ensures you’re getting a genuine product, along with access to any promotions, discounts, or warranty information. Many manufacturers offer special deals for first-time customers or seasonal sales, so it’s worth keeping an eye out for those. Advantages of buying from the official website: Authenticity: You are guaranteed to receive a high-quality, genuine product. Warranty and Customer Service: The official site often provides easy access to customer support and warranty claims. Exclusive Deals: Manufacturers may offer exclusive sales, bundles, or discounts on their site. b. Amazon Amazon is a popular marketplace for consumers looking to buy an Alpha Heat Vest. It’s a trusted platform that hosts a variety of sellers, providing users with multiple options. On Amazon, you can read reviews from other customers, compare prices, and check delivery times. Advantages of buying from Amazon: Wide Range of Options: Multiple sellers often offer different models of the vest, including various colors and sizes. Customer Reviews: Reading reviews from other buyers helps you gauge the quality of the vest before purchasing. Convenient Delivery: If you’re a Prime member, you can benefit from fast, free shipping. c. Retail Stores If you prefer in-person shopping, some physical stores also sell the Alpha Heat Vest. Popular retailers such as Best Buy, REI, or d*ck’s Sporting Goods may carry it in their winter clothing or outdoor gear sections. This option allows you to try on the vest for sizing and feel the materials before making a purchase. Advantages of buying in a retail store: Try Before You Buy: You can check the fit and quality in person. Instant Gratification: You can take the product home immediately. Expert Advice: Sales staff can offer advice on sizing or product features. d. Specialty Websites and Marketplaces In addition to larger platforms like Amazon, specialty websites often carry niche products like the Alpha Heat Vest. Websites focused on outdoor gear or heated clothing may offer the vest alongside other similar products, giving you a comprehensive view of options. Some other platforms to consider include eBay, Walmart, and outdoor-focused retailers like Backcountry. 3. How to Choose the Right Alpha Heat Vest Not all Alpha Heat Vests are created equal. When shopping for one, there are several factors to consider to ensure that you’re getting the right vest for your needs. a. Size and Fit Just like any clothing item, getting the right size is essential. The Alpha Heat Vest typically comes in various sizes, from small to extra-large, but sizing can vary between brands. Be sure to consult the sizing chart provided by the retailer to select the best fit. Some vests may offer adjustable straps or elastic elements to provide a more tailored fit. b. Heating Technology Different models of Alpha Heat Vests may feature varying heating technologies. While most are powered by rechargeable lithium-ion batteries, the battery capacity and heat levels can differ. A larger battery might provide longer heating time, but it may add some weight to the vest. Look for a vest that offers at least three adjustable heat settings for better customization. c. Material and Durability The material of the vest should not only be comfortable but also durable enough to withstand frequent wear and washing. Many Alpha Heat Vests are made from water-resistant or waterproof fabrics, which can be an essential feature if you plan on using it outdoors in wet conditions. A vest made from breathable materials will also ensure comfort during long periods of wear. d. Price The price of an Alpha Heat Vest can vary depending on the brand, features, and where you buy it. Expect to pay anywhere from $100 to $250 for a high-quality, well-reviewed vest. Keep an eye on discounts, bundle offers, or clearance sales to get the best deal possible. 4. Tips for Buying the Best Deal Here are some additional tips to make sure you’re getting the best deal when purchasing your Alpha Heat Vest: Compare Prices: Shop around and compare prices across different websites and stores. Check for Coupons: Many online retailers offer coupon codes or promotional discounts. Be sure to look for these before checking out. Read Customer Reviews: Reviews can provide valuable insights into the vest’s performance, durability, and overall quality. Look for a Warranty: A warranty can protect you in case the vest has defects or malfunctions. 5. Conclusion Buying an Alpha Heat Vest is a smart investment for anyone who frequently faces cold weather. With its ability to provide adjustable warmth, comfort, and portability, it’s a must-have for outdoor enthusiasts or those who simply want to stay warm during the winter months. By understanding the different buying options, knowing what features to look for, and following tips for finding the best deals, you’ll be well on your way to enjoying the benefits of your new heated vest.  
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