The Dirty Independence Question

[viberunner]

The full effects of the the bedroom tax aren't addressed, and Swinney doesn't want to let Westminster "off the hook" with the result that he's happy to let people suffer to make that political point.

I refer you to the order of business at Holyrood. Pick just about any week (this week's will do fine).

Not paying attention? No wonder you talk more guff than St Nicola.

You have not referred me to anything. If you have specific examples choose the most egregious.

[viberunner]

An english village Parish Council is more active.

Guff is the biggest thing that comes out of Holyrood.

I don't want to sound cruel but you kind of sound like a borderline racist lunatic.

BILLS CURRENTLY BEING ASSESSED AND PROCESSED BY PARLIAMENT

Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill [stage 3]

Alcohol (Licensing, Public Health and Criminal Justice) (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Apologies (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Assisted Suicide (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

British Sign Language (Scotland) Bill [stage 2]

Carers (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Community Justice (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill [stage 2]

Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Education (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Footway Parking and Double Parking (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Harbours (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc. and Care) (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Scotland) Bill [stage 2]

Inquiries into Deaths (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Interests of Members of the Scottish Parliament (Amendment) Bill [stage 1]

Mental Health (Scotland) Bill [stage 3]

Pentland Hills Regional Park Boundary Bill [stage 1]

Prisoners (Control of Release) (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Scottish Elections (Reduction of Voting Age) Bill [stage 1]

Smoking Prohibition (Children in Motor Vehicles) (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

Transplantation (Authorisation of Removal of Organs etc.) (Scotland) Bill [stage 1]

[viberunner]

BILLS PASSED INTO LAW THIS SESSION

Agricultural Holdings (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill

Aquaculture and Fisheries (Scotland) Bill

Bankruptcy and Debt Advice (Scotland) Bill

Budget (Scotland) (No.2) Bill [2013]

Budget (Scotland) (No.3) Bill [2014]

Budget (Scotland) (No.4) Bill [2015]

Budget (Scotland) Bill [2012]

Buildings (Recovery of Expenses) (Scotland) Bill

Burrell Collection (Lending and Borrowing) (Scotland) Bill

Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill

City of Edinburgh Council (Leith Links and Surplus Fire Fund) Bill

City of Edinburgh Council (Portobello Park) Bill

Community Charge Debt (Scotland) Bill

Courts Reform (Scotland) Bill

Criminal Cases (Punishment and Review) (Scotland) Bill

Crofting (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill

Disabled Persons' Parking Badges (Scotland) Bill

Food (Scotland) Bill

Forth Road Bridge Bill

Freedom of Information (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill

High Hedges (Scotland) Bill

Historic Environment Scotland Bill

Housing (Scotland) Bill [2013]

Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Scotland) Bill

Land Registration etc. (Scotland) Bill

Landfill Tax (Scotland) Bill

Legal Writings (Counterparts and Delivery) (Scotland) Bill

Local Government Finance (Unoccupied Properties etc.) (Scotland) Bill

Long Leases (Scotland) Bill [2012]

Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill

National Library of Scotland Bill

Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill

Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill

Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Bill

Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Bill

Regulatory Reform (Scotland) Bill

Revenue Scotland and Tax Powers Bill

Scottish Civil Justice Council and Criminal Legal Assistance Bill

Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Bill

Scottish Independence Referendum Bill

Social Care (Self-directed Support) (Scotland) Bill

The National Trust for Scotland (Governance etc.) Bill

Tribunals (Scotland) Bill

Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill

Water Resources (Scotland) Bill

Welfare Funds (Scotland) Bill

Welfare Reform (Further Provision) (Scotland) Bill

[viberunner]

BILLS PASSED INTO LAW PREVIOUS SESSION (SNP MINORITY GOVERMENT)

Abolition of Bridge Tolls (Scotland) Bill

Alcohol Etc. (Scotland) Bill

Arbitration (Scotland) Bill

Autism (Scotland) Bill

Budget (Scotland) (No.2) Bill [2009]

Budget (Scotland) (No.3) Bill [2009]

Budget (Scotland) (No.4) Bill [2010]

Budget (Scotland) (No.5) Bill [2011]

Budget (Scotland) (No.5) Bill

Budget (Scotland) Bill [2008]

Budget (Scotland) Bill (Budget) (E)

Certification of Death (Scotland) Bill

Children's Hearings (Scotland) Bill

Climate Change (Scotland) Bill

Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill

Control of Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Convention Rights Proceedings (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill

Creative Scotland Bill

Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Bill

Criminal Procedure (Legal Assistance, Detention and Appeals) (Scotland) Bill

Criminal Sentencing (Equity Fines) (M)

Crofting Reform (Scotland) Bill

Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) (Scotland) Bill

Damages (Scotland) Bill

Disabled Persons' Parking Places (Scotland) Bill

Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill

Double Jeopardy (Scotland) Bill

Double Jeopardy (Scotland) Bill (SP Bill 59)

Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Bill [2008]

End of Life Assistance (Scotland) Bill

Flood Risk Management (Scotland) Bill

Forced Marriage etc. (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill

Forced Marriage etc. (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Bill

Forth Crossing Bill

Glasgow Commonwealth Games Bill

Graduate Endowment Abolition (Scotland) Bill

Health Boards (Membership and Elections) (Scotland) Bill

Historic Environment (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill

Home Owner and Debtor Protection (Scotland) Bill

Housing (Scotland) Bill [2010]

Interpretation and Legislative Reform (Scotland) Bill

Judiciary and Courts (Scotland) Bill

Legal Services (Scotland) Bill

Local Electoral Administration (Scotland) Bill

Long Leases (Scotland) Bill [2010]

Marine (Scotland) Bill

Offences (Aggravation By Prejudice) (Scotland) Bill

Palliative Care (Scotland) Bill

Patient Rights (Scotland) Bill

Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Bill

Property Factors (Scotland) Bill

Protection of Workers (Scotland) Bill

Public Health etc. (Scotland) Bill

Public Records (Scotland) Bill

Public Services Reform (Scotland) Bill

Reservoirs (Scotland) Bill

Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Bill

Scottish Local Government (Elections)

Scottish Parliamentary Commissions and Commissioners etc. Bill

Scottish Parliamentary Pensions Bill

Scottish Register of Tartans Bill [2008]

Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill

Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill

Ure Elder Fund Transfer and Dissolution Bill

Wildlife and Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill

William Simpson's Home (Transfer of Property etc.) (Scotland) Bill

[eFestivals]

You have not referred me to anything. If you have specific examples choose the most egregious.

But you know enough about what goes on to keep calling me wrong. So you must have the proof of that, surely?

Try paying attention to your Parliament, rather than just mindless repeating "Westminster is shit".

[eFestivals]

BILLS CURRENTLY BEING ASSESSED AND PROCESSED BY PARLIAMENT

which they fit in around all of the stuff they spend their time on which is fuck all to do with that parliament.

Look at your Parliament's order of business, not the minor amount of stuff that goes thru full process.

Just think how much they could do if they spent their time doing the things they were elected to do, and not things they weren't elected to do.

Edited June 6, 2015 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

But you know enough about what goes on to keep calling me wrong. So you must have the proof of that, surely?

Try paying attention to your Parliament, rather than just mindless repeating "Westminster is shit".

I think Westminster is trying to legislate for too many people. But that's beside the point.

You made an accusation the SNP are using Holyrood for party grandstanding rather than parliamentary business. I asked you for evidence of this and your response is to ask why I cannot prove your allegation on your behalf.

I also showed you a list of bills being processed, passed under a majority government and even a substantial body of work passed as a minority government. Some of these are relatively minor issues or will sound desperately provincial such as the register of Tartans (though it will be of more interest if your livelihood is involved) or something about Portobello Park (though again of more interest if you live nearby or are employed in the Portabello tourism industry) but there are plenty of substantial national bills in there too, worker's rights, patient's rights, public health, sexual offences, domestic abuse, hate crimes, housing, water, energy, ecology...

Perhaps you were to busy being hateful of Scotland, her parliament, and her government, to have bothered checking for yourself just how much good governance was occurring.

[viberunner]

Look at your Parliament's order of business, not the minor amount of stuff that goes thru full process.

If you were to look at Westminster, or any parliament, from an "industry" point of view very few of them would be given high marks on the time and motion study. I would apply the same to the courts too.

What I don't see you presenting is the Scottish parliament is any worse than any other parliament.

MSPs, like MPs, have more to do than sit in a debating chamber. There are the various committees (which are charged with examining various issues or the bills in the various stages and creating reports for parliament) and of course they have constituency work to get on with.

About five years ago I had a reason to contact my local MSP (who happened to be SNP but in terms of constituency business that was irrelevant) on a matter of importance to me but obviously to nobody else. They looked at the case I presented, agreed with it, took some time out to sort it, and got in contact with me a couple of weeks later to ensure what needed resolving had occurred (it had).

[eFestivals]

I think Westminster is trying to legislate for too many people. But that's beside the point.

eh? It's no greater effort to legislate for 5M as it is 50M ... tho legislating for 50M instead of 5M is more efficient.

Perhaps you were to busy being hateful of Scotland, her parliament, and her government, to have bothered checking for yourself just how much good governance was occurring.

Yes, it's not possible to give fair comment on Holyrood and be critical of the SNP. Anyone doing so much be a racist.

(just think how great the world would be if everyone was as smart as you and not prejudiced like you are, eh? )

I was talking about the waste of time stuff they constantly do. If you can pay enough attention to give me a list of bills, you can also put in the effort to find the waste of time stuff too.Like this week, that was widely reported. .... or is mindless googling the limit of your abilities?

Perhaps try getting your info from somewhere different to the SNP script?

As for "just how much good governance was occurring", that applies at Westminster even when the tories are in power. No party has a monopoly on good ideas, and only a small part of things is budgets and the effects around them.

You seem to think I'm trying to say that nothing worthwhile happens in Holyrood.

I'm really pointing out that much more worthwhile could happen in Holyrood (and Westminster come to that) if the SNP actually spent their time trying to do good things that are within that platform's remit instead of grandstanding to those unable to have their own thoughts.

You could have had land reform* 5 years ago, The SNP thought another 5 years of shite for Scotland was a better idea.

Etc, etc, etc.

(* not that it's land reform worthy of being called that, but that's another thing)

[eFestivals]

If you were to look at Westminster, or any parliament, from an "industry" point of view very few of them would be given high marks on the time and motion study. I would apply the same to the courts too.

What I don't see you presenting is the Scottish parliament is any worse than any other parliament.

I don't disagree that there's lots of worthless guff talked. Westminster this week spent time talking about FIFA, for example, and I think they should have their pay docked for doing so.

And funnily enough, I think the same about Holyrood.

But it's worth pointing out that Holyrood has much less to deal with within it's legal remit, and yet still achieves much less.

MSPs, like MPs, have more to do than sit in a debating chamber. There are the various committees (which are charged with examining various issues or the bills in the various stages and creating reports for parliament) and of course they have constituency work to get on with.

but when they do sit in the debating chamber, they spend hours debating stuff that's fuck all to do with them.

Did you miss those bits? How? They happen almost every week.

About five years ago I had a reason to contact my local MSP (who happened to be SNP but in terms of constituency business that was irrelevant) on a matter of importance to me but obviously to nobody else. They looked at the case I presented, agreed with it, took some time out to sort it, and got in contact with me a couple of weeks later to ensure what needed resolving had occurred (it had).

Wow, fancy that, an MSP has been able to do one part of his job properly. Nothing like that has ever happened in that nasty Westminster.

(if it wasn't happening in Scotland, it's only the fault of Scots!).

Edited June 6, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

eh? It's no greater effort to legislate for 5M as it is 50M ... tho legislating for 50M instead of 5M is more efficient.

Yes, it's not possible to give fair comment on Holyrood and be critical of the SNP. Anyone doing so much be a racist.

(just think how great the world would be if everyone was as smart as you and not prejudiced like you are, eh? )

I was talking about the waste of time stuff they constantly do. If you can pay enough attention to give me a list of bills, you can also put in the effort to find the waste of time stuff too.Like this week, that was widely reported. .... or is mindless googling the limit of your abilities?

Perhaps try getting your info from somewhere different to the SNP script?

As for "just how much good governance was occurring", that applies at Westminster even when the tories are in power. No party has a monopoly on good ideas, and only a small part of things is budgets and the effects around them.

You seem to think I'm trying to say that nothing worthwhile happens in Holyrood.

I'm really pointing out that much more worthwhile could happen in Holyrood (and Westminster come to that) if the SNP actually spent their time trying to do good things that are within that platform's remit instead of grandstanding to those unable to have their own thoughts.

You could have had land reform* 5 years ago, The SNP thought another 5 years of shite for Scotland was a better idea.

Etc, etc, etc.

(* not that it's land reform worthy of being called that, but that's another thing)

Doubt they'd have got land reform through as a minority government.

[viberunner]

eh? It's no greater effort to legislate for 5M as it is 50M ... tho legislating for 50M instead of 5M is more efficient.

I strongly dispute that. A local body with real powers can accommodate local needs, the "parish items" as it were, but with genuine not parish powers.

A parliament for 66 million, let alone having factored in inherent inertial and political intransience, will mostly legislate for the very largest of issues or the issues with the best lobbyists. Four 4 million people and you can find time for more local issues.

You then gave a lot of blah blah blah instead of defending your accusation with evidence. I'll address any evidence as and when you are able to cobble it together.

[viberunner]

Wow, fancy that, an MSP has been able to do one part of his job properly. Nothing like that has ever happened in that nasty Westminster.

(if it wasn't happening in Scotland, it's only the fault of Scots!).

I didn't write it aggressively, I didn't make party or tribal or nationalistic points. Look how you respond.

Or let me state it in language you can understand: look how you respond :D

All I have to say is I wish you well during your period of recovery and I hope to see some progress soon.

Edited June 6, 2015 by viberunner

[LJS]

I didn't write it aggressively, I didn't make party or tribal or nationalistic points. Look how you respond.

Or let me state it in language you can understand: look how you respond :D

All I have to say is I wish you well during your period of recovery and I hope to see some progress soon.

There is no known cure for Neil's condition, sadly.

[viberunner]

There is no known cure for Neil's condition, sadly.

Neil realises he has been asked to back-up his accusations.

[eFestivals]

Doubt they'd have got land reform through as a minority government.

Given that there's very little to what they're doing when they're a majority govt, it doesn't make much difference.

But OK, that my words as being 4 years instead of 5 years. They're 100% consciously decided that Scoland should suffer unnecessary shite for the last 4 years, instead of making the tiny tweaks they're calling 'land reform' to improve things.

Grandstanding has been more important tot he SP than doing things for Scotland, and they continue to operate with their priorities as themselves and not Scotland - the very thing you claim as being the reason for Scotland's rejection of Labour.

The only thing they're playing better than Labour is their ability to tug at your heartstrings instead of your intelligence.

[eFestivals]

I strongly dispute that. A local body with real powers can accommodate local needs, the "parish items" as it were, but with genuine not parish powers.

A parliament for 66 million, let alone having factored in inherent inertial and political intransience, will mostly legislate for the very largest of issues or the issues with the best lobbyists. Four 4 million people and you can find time for more local issues.

You then gave a lot of blah blah blah instead of defending your accusation with evidence. I'll address any evidence as and when you are able to cobble it together.

Oh FFS.

Any govt anywhere will act to legislate for the largest of issues or the issues with the best lobbyists .... otherwise they're be ignoring the important issues to deal with niche issues that are of little interest to the eletorate.

As for evidence, i'm glad to see it's only evidence if vetted and approved by you in advance, and things cease to exist if they're outside of your knowledge. Such a progressive take will certainly lead to progressive politics..

[eFestivals]

I didn't write it aggressively, I didn't make party or tribal or nationalistic points. Look how you respond.

Or let me state it in language you can understand: look how you respond :D

All I have to say is I wish you well during your period of recovery and I hope to see some progress soon.

If you think you saying "my MSP once did his job properly" has much relevance to anything being discussed here, the issues are yours.

[eFestivals]

Neil realises he has been asked to back-up his accusations.

sorry, what "accusations"?

The only one I can remember making towards you gets proved as correct in almost every post you make.

I reference facts, and tell you enough for you to reference them. If you're not smart enough to do the same or not bothered enough to know them that's your issue and not mine.

The best decisions are made using the greatest number of available facts.

How's your decision making? Not good, given that you voted against tory austerity by supporting greater austerity in the manifesto you voted to support.

Edited June 7, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

Given that there's very little to what they're doing when they're a majority govt, it doesn't make much difference.

But OK, that my words as being 4 years instead of 5 years. They're 100% consciously decided that Scoland should suffer unnecessary shite for the last 4 years, instead of making the tiny tweaks they're calling 'land reform' to improve things.

Grandstanding has been more important tot he SP than doing things for Scotland, and they continue to operate with their priorities as themselves and not Scotland - the very thing you claim as being the reason for Scotland's rejection of Labour.

The only thing they're playing better than Labour is their ability to tug at your heartstrings instead of your intelligence.

Yeah & they set up a Land reform review group in 2012 & when it reported they decided to bring forward legislation. By your logic, any government should pass all important legislation in its first year &* then what? go on holiday for 3 or 4 years. There have been a number of previous bills passed by the Scottish parliament which impact on land ownership - one specifically relating to crofting and others promoting community land ownership. These are all moves in the right direction. Would I like them to move further & faster? Of course I would but I choose to welcome any move in the right direction & see it as an ongoing process. It is also worth bearing in mind, that in any land reform you are taking on powerful vested interests - a gradual approach probably makes political sense.

sorry, what "accusations"?

The only one I can remember making towards you gets proved as correct in almost every post you make.

I reference facts, and tell you enough for you to reference them. If you're not smart enough to do the same or not bothered enough to know them that's your issue and not mine.

The best decisions are made using the greatest number of available facts.

How's your decision making? Not good, given that you voted against tory austerity by supporting greater austerity in the manifesto you voted to support.

I think this is the accusation Vibe is referring to... "they're not "campaigning for Scotland" they're using Holyrood as a vehicle for SNP promotion."

Despite repeated requests, you have failed to provide any examples of this. It's an old trick of yours - make a vague allegation & when challenged to back it up try to make your opponents seem foolish because they can't see what is so blindingly obvious to you. Most of the rest of us try & provide links to back up what we say. I suggest you try it.

[LJS]

You'll have the Smith Commission stuff in force at the same time, so that's not actually true.

And Smith coming in so quickly is putting the shits up the SNP too. It makes Sturgeon's "not relevant" the most relevant part of Scottish politics.

Oh dear.

No we won't. I haven't been able to find a definite date for the current Scotland Bill coming into effect but I did find a quote from David Mundell (SOS for Scotland) that he hoped it would come into effect by 2019. Until then we won't have any real ability to use the tax system in a redistributive way.

Note, this is not me saying this is what the SNP would do - It's what I'd like to see them do.

[eFestivals]

Yeah & they set up a Land reform review group in 2012 & when it reported they decided to bring forward legislation. By your logic, any government should pass all important legislation in its first year &* then what? go on holiday for 3 or 4 years. There have been a number of previous bills passed by the Scottish parliament which impact on land ownership - one specifically relating to crofting and others promoting community land ownership. These are all moves in the right direction. Would I like them to move further & faster? Of course I would but I choose to welcome any move in the right direction & see it as an ongoing process. It is also worth bearing in mind, that in any land reform you are taking on powerful vested interests - a gradual approach probably makes political sense.

Land reform has surely been the biggest internal issue in Scotland for well over a century....?

The SNP were late the party (preferring grandstanding instead!), and then do almost nothing.

And yes, I'm sure there are strong vested interests, but a party being scared - terrified, given the initial inaction and then only minor tweaks - of those interests isn't what most snippers believe they're voting for.

And pandering to power vested interests - tho a very minor group - is supposedly what makes Westminster so unfit for purpose.

See where I'm going with this?

All you're left with is "at least it's being fucked up by Scots in Scotland".

Which is none of the 'better' you like to claim, and everything of the parochial and racist.

I think this is the accusation Vibe is referring to... "they're not "campaigning for Scotland" they're using Holyrood as a vehicle for SNP promotion."

Despite repeated requests, you have failed to provide any examples of this. It's an old trick of yours - make a vague allegation & when challenged to back it up try to make your opponents seem foolish because they can't see what is so blindingly obvious to you. Most of the rest of us try & provide links to back up what we say. I suggest you try it.

It's not a trick.

Either you're following things closely enough to be informed enough to have an informed view, or you're winging it. Right here and now, both of you have proven you're winging it.

I've told you where you can find what I've referred to. - more than enough to do yourself what you're asking me to do for you, because you appear to be incapable of using your brain for yourself. Do you need your arse wiped for you, too?

Find the Holyrood order of buiness from the last week, and what i'm referring to will jump right out at you - or at least it should do, if you're not playing I-pretend.

(what jumps out at you might not be the specific example I'm referring to because there's probably more than the one instance of grandstanding in any week ... but there's very definitely at least one instance within the last week).

[eFestivals]

No we won't. I haven't been able to find a definite date for the current Scotland Bill coming into effect but I did find a quote from David Mundell (SOS for Scotland) that he hoped it would come into effect by 2019. Until then we won't have any real ability to use the tax system in a redistributive way.

Note, this is not me saying this is what the SNP would do - It's what I'd like to see them do.

OK, I've not seen a firm date either, so I'll go with you being right here (tho the suggestion has always been in time for the 2016 elections).

But .... we're talking just £177M in this particular instance, which is roughly £70 per income tax payer (based on a guesstimate of 2.5M income tax payers in Scotland). No one would even notice paying it.

But paying yourselves for what you think you deserve over and above others? It's an outrage.

Even tho you voted in support of doing just that.

Confused, much?

A row based on a falsehood is a much better thing than following election promises. Welcome to the SNP's Scotland.

Edited June 7, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

Land reform has surely been the biggest internal issue in Scotland for well over a century....?

The SNP were late the party (preferring grandstanding instead!), and then do almost nothing.

And yes, I'm sure there are strong vested interests, but a party being scared - terrified, given the initial inaction and then only minor tweaks - of those interests isn't what most snippers believe they're voting for.

And pandering to power vested interests - tho a very minor group - is supposedly what makes Westminster so unfit for purpose.

See where I'm going with this?

All you're left with is "at least it's being fucked up by Scots in Scotland".

Which is none of the 'better' you like to claim, and everything of the parochial and racist.

It's really easy ( & right) to talk about the injustice & inequality of the pattern of land ownership in Scotland. What is significantly more difficult is to come up with a workable solution that actually improves things for people who live & work on the land as well as those who access it recreationally. Vast swathes of land in Scotland have little or no economic value so there is unlikely to be a vast queue off people waiting to take ownership away from the existing owners. Community ownership is a solution in some cases (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30622606) but takes hard work and dedication and is certainly no guarantee of success (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30176460)

The important thing is that whoever owns the land, they act responsibly and in the interests of the community that lives on the land. Many of the current owners do that & the trick is to penalise those that don't without equally penalising those who act responsibly. Whilst the principal that ownership of vast swathes of land by a small number of people is wrong, there is no gain if we right that wrong & replace with a system that actually results in a worse outcome.

The new legislation "would see ministers getting new powers to “intervene” where the scale of land ownership or the conduct of a landlord is acting as “a barrier to sustainable development”. This could include enforced sell-offs." (http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/snp-cabinet-agrees-to-fast-track-land-reform-plans-1-3734725)

Now if you have an easy answer to the problem, I'd like to hear it. In the meantime, I shall continue to welcome the proposed changes as steps in the right direction. The landowners are all complaining so I'm thinking there must be something good in there!

It's not a trick.

Either you're following things closely enough to be informed enough to have an informed view, or you're winging it. Right here and now, both of you have proven you're winging it.

I've told you where you can find what I've referred to. - more than enough to do yourself what you're asking me to do for you, because you appear to be incapable of using your brain for yourself. Do you need your arse wiped for you, too?

Find the Holyrood order of buiness from the last week, and what i'm referring to will jump right out at you - or at least it should do, if you're not playing I-pretend.

(what jumps out at you might not be the specific example I'm referring to because there's probably more than the one instance of grandstanding in any week ... but there's very definitely at least one instance within the last week).

I'm not interested in your little games of hide & seek.

Edited June 7, 2015 by LJS

[LJS]

OK, I've not seen a firm date either, so I'll go with you being right here (tho the suggestion has always been in time for the 2016 elections).

But .... we're talking just £177M in this particular instance, which is roughly £70 per income tax payer (based on a guesstimate of 2.5M income tax payers in Scotland). No one would even notice paying it.

But paying yourselves for what you think you deserve over and above others? It's an outrage.

Even tho you voted in support of doing just that.

Confused, much?

A row based on a falsehood is a much better thing than following election promises. Welcome to the SNP's Scotland.

The SNP clearly campaigned against further cuts in UK spending. It would be bizarre if they didn't oppose these cuts & you would be the first to call them out for it. I really don't see what you fail to get about that.