The Dirty Independence Question

[kaosmark2]

I dunno, deluded worship is one thing, but taking retaliatory action is stepping towards the n over the l.

I think both terms are accurate in regards to some.

[LJS]

2 or 3 days ago I got a wave of cybernats retweeting and rage-replying to a tweet I'd made back when the election results came in. Some of it was quite aggressive. I didn't bother replying to any of it, but it did highlight just how cultish some snippers can be.

Jings...folk being rude on Twitter.

Astonishing.

[eFestivals]

I heard an interesting story about one of the new 56 the other day.

 

She's been phoning round estate agents, on the hunt for a two bedroom house.

 

With a garden.

 

In Kensington.

 

It *MUST* be in Kensington, and it *MUST* have a garden.

 

After all, the taxpayers are picking up the tab, so she's having the best and NOTHING is going to stop her.

 

Yep, really really different.

[kaosmark2]

Jings...folk being rude on Twitter.

Astonishing.

I'm not particularly active, I don't have or cultivate a large following, and it was a tweet from 6 weeks prior that had had one or two responses at the time I made it. It was a ridiculous degree of reaction considering all that - it got more attention than any other tweet I've made - with this attention coming several weeks after the fact - and none of those reacting to it being people who follow me.

 

SNP-obsessed twitter accounts have outdone video-game nuts in the height of gamergate for degree of reaction to what I've posted. I'm not trying to suggest that they are representative of all SNP voters, I am commenting that there is a noticeable extreme contingent amongst them.

[LJS]

 One of Neil's constant themes during the indyref campaign was that opinions in Scotland didn't differ much from those in The rUK on most issues. 

 

So, I was interested to come across a couple of recent opinion polls on multiculturalism & Greece where our views in Scotland differ significantly from your views darn sarff.

 

We are the only part of the UK  which thinks we should reduce & renegotiate Greece's debt & us & Londoners are the only people who believe multiculturalism makes Britain better.  

 

I could of course supply links to these polls but as Neil clearly thinks that encourages laziness in others, I shall refrain.

[eFestivals]

So, I was interested to come across a couple of recent opinion polls on multiculturalism & Greece where our views in Scotland differ significantly from your views darn sarff.

 

it's hardly surprising that snippers are supportive of Syriza. That's the SNP's financial policy, right there.

 

Quite why some people are stupid enough to think you can democratically voted yourself other people's money I'm not sure. Have you worked it out, LJS?

 

As for the immigration thing, as I've said before, get back to me when Scotland doesn't have don't have hugely different rates of immigration to England to cause a different opinion towards it. You can only make an equal measure when things are equal.

[russycarps]

Brent crude dipped to $56.50 a barrel yesterday.

WOW.

Lucky escape Scotland. Very lucky.

[eFestivals]

I wonder if the snippers are cheering Gideon today? He's maybe going to make the SNP look good - when really both of them should hang their heads in shame.

 

To give freebies to the middle classes in the manner of no Uni fees, the SNP robbed the poorest of much of the support grant that had been available to them if attending Uni. As a result the number of the poorest going into higher education in Scotland has plummeted, and is adding to the poverty gap.

 

To give freebies to the middle upper classes in the manner of anything and everything, Gideon has done much the same in England, and abolished the support grant entirely - tho the value of it is now available as extra within the student loan.

 

So it looks like Scotland's "%poorest at uni" figure could soon be better than England's ... tho only because the tories are starting to catch up with the SNottish tories, by making England as shit as Scotland.

Edited July 8, 2015 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

I wonder if the snippers are cheering Gideon today? He's maybe going to make the SNP look good - when really both of them should hang their heads in shame.

 

To give freebies to the middle classes in the manner of no Uni fees..........................................

 

OR.......

 

Some people agree with Salmond that further education should be based on the ability to learn not to pay. I am more than happy to see my taxes going on educating our young and of course old(er). I am happy that they will go on in life without the burden of massive debt. 

If you check the general election voting stats you should be able to work out who is cheering today. Fair enough of course as thats what people voted for.

 

For the moment.....that is the joys of our better together union one nation one love rule the waves etc etc.

 

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/alex-salmond-free-university-vow-writ-in-stane-1-3608685

[russycarps]

OR.......

Some people agree with Salmond that further education should be based on the ability to learn not to pay. I am more than happy to see my taxes going on educating our young and of course old(er). I am happy that they will go on in life without the burden of massive debt.

If you check the general election voting stats you should be able to work out who is cheering today. Fair enough of course as thats what people voted for.

For the moment.....that is the joys of our better together union one nation one love rule the waves etc etc.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/alex-salmond-free-university-vow-writ-in-stane-1-3608685

You should read the comments to that article

[Comfy Bean]

What's your comments on tuition fees russ?

We have agreed before that these cyber comments from both sides are normally nuts. I never bother with the under article madness. I do know of a man who has read over a million of them lolzzz

Edited July 8, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[eFestivals]

Some people agree with Salmond that further education should be based on the ability to learn not to pay.

if that's his opinion, why has it made it harder for people to learn because they have the ability but not the money?

Those are the facts. The SNP funding changes has lessened access to education by those who have the brains but not the money. The facts are the facts!

[russycarps]

What's your comments on tuition fees russ?

We have agreed before that these cyber comments from both sides are normally nuts. I never bother with the under article madness. I do know of a man who has read over a million of them lolzzz

 

 

on the surface it seems like a wonderful idea, until you realise it's actually just yet another bribe to the middle class. The working class are paying for the middle class to go to university. 

 

The answer is a combination of free and fee paying education, with the fee payers funding the free lot.

 

But that would lose the snp votes. Their so-called socialist principles are once again exposed as lies.

Edited July 9, 2015 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

on the surface it seems like a wonderful idea, until you realise it's actually just yet another bribe to the middle class. The working class are paying for the middle class to go to university. 

 

The answer is a combination of free and fee paying education, with the fee payers funding the free lot.

 

But that would lose the snp votes. Their so-called socialist principles are once again exposed as lies.

 

Spot on. What has happened with people going to uni in Scotland proves this as irrefutable fact.

 

All politics within capitalist based societies is simply about shaving resources from one thing to add to another, and when it's the poorest who have had their resources shaved as has happened under the SNP it's the poorest who suffer as a result.

[Comfy Bean]

Neil when you say spot on to russy are you referring to... "A combination of free and fee paying education"

This sounds familiar :-)

[Comfy Bean]

What is a middle class 18 year old. Will they not be left with the debt?

As I said before, I'm happy my taxes go towards their education. If it works out for them then in theory they will pay their way through higher taxes for four decades. What " class " they are at 18 doesn't concern us up here hence...ability to learn is the key.

[eFestivals]

Neil when you say spot on to russy are you referring to... "A combination of free and fee paying education"

This sounds familiar :-)

 

Ideally it would be free to everyone in an equyal way to give everyone equal access.

That's not what SNP policy does tho. It gives preference to the people who could afford to pay while disadvantaging those who couldn't afford to pay.

 

The facts of this are shown very clearly by Scotland now having a lower intake of the poorest compared to England where the poorest get a greater amount of financial support than they do in Scotland.

 

(that's at the moment of course, cos Gideon has just killed that off to a large extent).

 

As I point out above, all politics within capitalist based societies is simply around shaving resources from one thing to add to another. The SNP method is to rob the poor to benefit the not-poor. It's the exact opposite of the social justice people like you claim for the SNP.

[eFestivals]

What " class " they are at 18 doesn't concern us up here hence...ability to learn is the key.

 

it very clearly does tho - else the SNP wouldn't have robbed the poorest to benefit the middle classes.

 

And ability to learn becomes much less of the key than was the case before the SNP changes.

 

The facts of who goes to uni proves these things beyond all doubt.

 

But you just keep pretending that robbing the poor to benefit the well-off is socialism and not the Blairism that it really is, if you want to keep proving yourself as either nothing more intelligent than a fan-boy or at worst utterly stupid.

Edited July 9, 2015 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

What is a middle class 18 year old. Will they not be left with the debt?

As I said before, I'm happy my taxes go towards their education. If it works out for them then in theory they will pay their way through higher taxes for four decades. What " class " they are at 18 doesn't concern us up here hence...ability to learn is the key.

 

 

do you not understand how some 18 year olds are in a more privileged position than others?

 

If you dont, then it's pointless carrying on with this.

[tolywoly]

What is a middle class 18 year old. Will they not be left with the debt?

As I said before, I'm happy my taxes go towards their education. If it works out for them then in theory they will pay their way through higher taxes for four decades. What " class " they are at 18 doesn't concern us up here hence...ability to learn is the key.

The "class" distinction comes in to the "ability to pay" bit. Different people have different abilities to pay. Scottish Government policy disproportionately disadvantages those with the least ability to pay.

 

It's a nice little perk for the voting middle classes with a superficial progressive progressive coating, so they get to feel good about robbing the poor to further entrench their own privileged access to higher education. 

 

Hasn't this come up once or twice before on this thread? 

[Comfy Bean]

Yeah I think we have had this before. My point yesterday...and now today is that I am happy to see my taxes go towards education and in theory the students will pay it back anyway through the tax system already in place. In theory at a higher rate via their job.

They are 18. Why must everyone go in a class box.

This whole culture of people starting off in life handcuffed to massive debt is maybe why our kingdom are in gazillions of debt.

In my opinion, this debt issue could also put people off getting further education which seems a shame.

We pay they learn. What age do you guys think we should start charging students tuition fees then?

18, 17, 16, 15....or does that depend what class your putting these kids in.

I'm happy to pay to give the young uns the best opportunities :-)

[russycarps]

Yeah I think we have had this before. My point yesterday...and now today is that I am happy to see my taxes go towards education and in theory the students will pay it back anyway through the tax system already in place. In theory at a higher rate via their job.

They are 18. Why must everyone go in a class box.

This whole culture of people starting off in life handcuffed to massive debt is maybe why our kingdom are in gazillions of debt.

In my opinion, this debt issue could also put people off getting further education which seems a shame.

We pay they learn. What age do you guys think we should start charging students tuition fees then?

18, 17, 16, 15....or does that depend what class your putting these kids in.

I'm happy to pay to give the young uns the best opportunities :-)

 

 

so you dont think the rich should pay for the poor. Fair enough.

[Comfy Bean]

I don't think we should charge for education and I accept that where education leads to someone getting a higher paid job they will pay higher taxes which will contribute towards educating the next generation.

Free education is a flagship SNP policy. It would appear that many in Scotland support it. The libs used to as well did they not?

How did that turn out for them. Oh and what age would you start charging for education russ?

[eFestivals]

This whole culture of people starting off in life handcuffed to massive debt is maybe why our kingdom are in gazillions of debt.

Stuff like this makes me laugh, constantly.

The people who always bring up the UK's debts are the very people who are advocating making it much bigger.

Just as you're doing here.

In my opinion, this debt issue could also put people off getting further education which seems a shame.

I';m sure it does - cos it certainly puts off the very poorest in society, more-so than it does the more advantaged.

And so the gap grows even further as the poorest are abandoned.

By the very people who like to feel smug about how much they want to help the poorest.

[eFestivals]

Free education is a flagship SNP policy.

and an anti-progressive one as the facts get to prove.

Despite all the wrongly-placed claims about how progressive it is. You're all right jack, and that's good enough for you.

 

It would appear that many in Scotland support it. The libs used to as well did they not?

How did that turn out for them.

How much support something gets is an entirely different thing. If you play to the middle ground you get to pick up votes from the pool of votes which is the biggest.

 

You know, *exactly* as Blair did it, which you say is wrong even tho you support the same from the SNP.

 

Oh and what age would you start charging for education russ?

You're not getting it.

It's not about charging or not, ultimately. It's about getting the best effect with the resources available.

 

What lifts the poorest out of poverty is resources targeted at the poorest - the very opposite of SNP policy around education.

Edited July 9, 2015 by eFestivals