The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

and I pointed out the fact that it fucks over the poorest.

And you remain wedded to the policy which fucks over the poorest.

And you stupidly believe it's a progressive policy that fucks over the poorest.

If you want to support Blairism that's fine, but please have the brains to realise what you're doing, rather than the stupidity to believe it's helping the poor.

Your point is ridiculous. Any policy that doesn't directly benefit the poorest could be described as "fucking over the poorest"

Money for libraries fucks over the poorest.

Support for the arts fucks over the poorest.

The new Forth bridge fucks over the poorest.

I could go on.

Free prescriptions, eye tests & personal care all have positive effects on the nation's health as whole.

Edited July 10, 2015 by LJS

[eFestivals]

Your point is ridiculous. Any policy that doesn't directly benefit the poorest could be described as "fucking over the poorest"

 

I see your moron mode is becoming permanent. I'd get yourself to the doc's.

 

We're talking about a particular example where money was robbed from the poorest to benefit those who are doing OK.

 

The poor were DELIBERATELY robbed.

 

You've cheered it on ever since.

[russycarps]

Oil prices have further to fall. The middle east keeps pumping and forecasts for Iraqi output is improving all the time.

A very very lucky escape scotland. Oh wait, this is probably just bluff and bluster from the IEA, right?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11732566/Oil-price-has-further-to-fall-says-IEA.html

Edited July 12, 2015 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

Oil prices have further to fall. The middle east keeps pumping and forecasts for Iraqi output is improving all the time.

A very very lucky escape scotland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11732566/Oil-price-has-further-to-fall-says-IEA.html

 

When the price first crashed, the SNP screamed that the high taxes on the UK oil industry was destroying Scottish jobs, and that Westminster should cut the taxes.

 

Those 'high taxes' are actually the extraction fee, best known as 'the oil money' or even 'ooor oil'.

 

Osborne has reduced the tax rates at least once since then. It might even have been twice, I'm not sure.

 

Nowadays the scream I'm hearing is that Osborne has reduced the taxes to ensure Scotland is forever financially fucked from a self-funding viewpoint.

 

Aside from that ignoring the fact that an iScotland could put those tax rates back up if it chose, the levels of duplicity are now stupidly ridiculous.

[viberunner]

No tuition fees - paid for by Scotland's poorest to benefit Scotland's better off.

no elderly care home costs - paid for by Scotland's poorest to benefit Scotland's better off.

no NHS prescription fees - paid for by Scotland's poorest to benefit Scotland's better off.

 

 

What an utter load of bollocks.

 

Tuition fees harm the poorest off. Forcing elderly people to sell their homes hurts the working-class homeowners without large cash reserves, the prescription fees hurt worst the working poor.

 

The poorest - those on benefits be they 100% benefits or minimum wage poor - are not the one funding these things.

[viberunner]

London Labour are at it again. During the election they make it 100% clear they would refuse to work with the SNP. They could not have been more clear on that.

 

Now, because it will help English - and only English - laws London Labour are "urging" SNP support on an English only matter, Fox Hunting in England.

 

Impressively, Labour has managed to get unanimity of all it's Scottish MPs on this issue. Mind you, it's a one-man-band and he's also Shadow Scottish Secretary. 

[viberunner]

Your point is ridiculous.

 

Have we only just noticed this about him?  

[LJS]

Have we only just noticed this about him?

Oh, not at all, but I think it's no. 37 in Neil's debating tips for beginners.

"if you think you've made a good point, repeat it endlessly."

I merely follow at the feet of the master.

By the way no. 38 is: don't worry if your point had been thoroughly debunked & discredited, if you repeat it enough, it becomes right.

[eFestivals]

What an utter load of bollocks.

 

Tuition fees harm the poorest off. Forcing elderly people to sell their homes hurts the working-class homeowners without large cash reserves, the prescription fees hurt worst the working poor.

 

The poorest - those on benefits be they 100% benefits or minimum wage poor - are not the one funding these things.

 

I'm glad to see you're firmly wedded to your fact free existance. ;lol:

[eFestivals]

London Labour are at it again. During the election they make it 100% clear they would refuse to work with the SNP. They could not have been more clear on that.

 

Now, because it will help English - and only English - laws London Labour are "urging" SNP support on an English only matter, Fox Hunting in England.

 

Impressively, Labour has managed to get unanimity of all it's Scottish MPs on this issue. Mind you, it's a one-man-band and he's also Shadow Scottish Secretary. 

 

The most amusing thing about this is that Evil Dave is trying to introduce SNP policy to English foxhunting law.

 

And the SNP supporters say how evil Dave is.

[eFestivals]

Have we only just noticed this about him?  

 

yes, call me ridiculous, anything to avoid actual discussion of the point where you know you're on weak ground.

[LJS]

The most amusing thing about this is that Evil Dave is trying to introduce SNP policy to English foxhunting law.

And the SNP supporters say how evil Dave is.

How is it SNP policy? The Scottish hunting ban was introduced under a lab/lib government?

[eFestivals]

How is it SNP policy? The Scottish hunting ban was introduced under a lab/lib government?

care to show me the SNP policy to change it to something else?

[russycarps]

regarding fox hunting, at least we will soon see whether politics is more important to st nicola than morality.

[kaosmark2]

I'm against hunting, but the reaction to this proposed law seems extreme to me, given that laws that basically allow private companies to hound the disabled and sick got much less attention. Is it because foxes are cuter than ill people?

[russycarps]

I'm against hunting, but the reaction to this proposed law seems extreme to me, given that laws that basically allow private companies to hound the disabled and sick got much less attention. Is it because foxes are cuter than ill people?

 

 

I dont know. I dont rank my beliefs. I dont believe foxes should be hunted and I dont believe the poor people should be hounded. I'm happy the subject of hunting is getting an extreme reaction. Rather one of the topics gets this reaction than none.

[russycarps]

regarding fox hunting, at least we will soon see whether politics is more important to st nicola than morality.

God bless st nicola!

[eFestivals]

God bless st nicola!

 

yeah, because it took weeks for them to decide they're moral people.

 

And of course there's nothing immoral about abandoning what they'd claimed was a moral stance about not voting on purely English laws.

 

It's not about foxes, it's about further damaging UK unity.

 

They get to piss off the people in England who are offended by Scotland being able to vote on English stuff but England isn't able to vote on the same Scottish stuff, to provoke the tories about EVEL, the thing the SNP say they don't want but which they desperately want the tories to do.

 

While the snippers can feel smug about how their wonderful party cares for fixes as well as Scotland.

 

Now, who was it said that the SNP actions would always be about hammering the wedge in further?

[LJS]

yeah, because it took weeks for them to decide they're moral people.

And of course there's nothing immoral about abandoning what they'd claimed was a moral stance about not voting on purely English laws.

It's not about foxes, it's about further damaging UK unity.

They get to piss off the people in England who are offended by Scotland being able to vote on English stuff but England isn't able to vote on the same Scottish stuff, to provoke the tories about EVEL, the thing the SNP say they don't want but which they desperately want the tories to do.

While the snippers can feel smug about how their wonderful party cares for fixes as well as Scotland.

Now, who was it said that the SNP actions would always be about hammering the wedge in further?

You are funny. You clearly woild have equally condemned them had they decided to abstain.

Your blind irrational hatred of all things SNP is becoming quite hilarious.

[eFestivals]

You are funny. You clearly woild have equally condemned them had they decided to abstain.

Your blind irrational hatred of all things SNP is becoming quite hilarious.

 

I'm perfectly happy to admit that whichever stance the SNP decided to take would be flawed - but mostly flawed against their own claims about themselves.

 

However, that's not what I've done here (and in my post in the general news thread). I've simply pointed out the facts.

 

The fact it's taken the SNP many months to decide on their position proves beyond all doubt their position is nothing based in the morality of protecting foxes - because when something is about morality you know that about it instantly.

 

Instead, the SNP have taken a position based on what they see as being to their political advantage - where they can create division with England but look nice and fluffy to their own supporters.

 

You know, to hammer in the wedge.

 

What you and they have missed is that the wedge is bankrupt. A wedge of lead doesn't do much against hard stone, and a world of hard stone is what you and your friends are waking up to.

 

Unless the SNP are about to abandon their support for the EU? I wouldn't be surprised if they did (just listen to yourself about Greece!), tho that only gets to further show that the SNP have no principles, aside from indie.

[LJS]

I'm perfectly happy to admit that whichever stance the SNP decided to take would be flawed - but mostly flawed against their own claims about themselves.

However, that's not what I've done here (and in my post in the general news thread). I've simply pointed out the facts.

The fact it's taken the SNP many months to decide on their position proves beyond all doubt their position is nothing based in the morality of protecting foxes - because when something is about morality you know that about it instantly.

Instead, the SNP have taken a position based on what they see as being to their political advantage - where they can create division with England but look nice and fluffy to their own supporters.

You know, to hammer in the wedge.

What you and they have missed is that the wedge is bankrupt. A wedge of lead doesn't do much against hard stone, and a world of hard stone is what you and your friends are waking up to.

Unless the SNP are about to abandon their support for the EU? I wouldn't be surprised if they did (just listen to yourself about Greece!), tho that only gets to further show that the SNP have no principles, aside from indie.

Still struggling with the difference between facts opinions, I see.

[eFestivals]

Unless the SNP are about to abandon their support for the EU?

 

There's a lot of changed thoughts around the EU at the mo, with a lot of love for the hash-tag hate-tag #ThisIsACoup

 

The kippers are loving it, while the snippers are confused. The EU was meant to be their salvation, but they've just seen Brussels act just how they hate nasty Westminster acting.

 

Brussels has enforced financial responsibility onto its autonomous units (specifically Greece). The SNP have just voted against nasty Westminster enforcing financial responsibility onto Scotland.

 

There's a way to go before political tribes settle into a fixed view about it all, but however it goes with snippers is going to be uncomfortable for the SNP. Either their EU position is likely to have to change, or their financial position.

 

It's going to be interesting.

[eFestivals]

Still struggling with the difference between facts opinions, I see.

 

 

the one "fact" I've claimed is that it's taken many months for the SNP to decide on its position.

 

Care to show me their decision taken months ago about the vote they knew was coming?

 

Oh dear LJS, you get further and further away from reality every day. Now you can't even recognise the irrefutable facts about the party you support.

[kaosmark2]

I think the SNP would have been criticised either way. The "tradition" of not voting on English matters is a long one, albeit one I disagree with. I'm no advocate for them but I think they were right to take time to think about this - as long as they commit to voting on all matters as opposed to having to be pressured into it.

[gary1979666]

Taking time to let the public know how things are going to turn out is all part of politics - they all do it - how long did it take to see the detail behind the £12bn of welfare cuts and similarly how long will it take us to find out Labour's stance on it!

 

This trasdition of not voting on English matters, i do agree with, but hope there's enough support to keep the ban regardless - there must be a fair amount of Tories who don't want it lifted (either through genuine thought about animal welfare or if nothing else for the public mood on it.)