The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

This is a total distortion of the Yes position.

not really. It's just removing the bullshit from the yes position.

"Nuclear weapons are horrible things, but we'd rather have nukes protect us than have no protection".

So not actually that horrible then.

Edited April 30, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Sometimes in life you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

yep, and in this case the lesser evil are nukes.

They're too evil for the good people of Scotland to come into contact with, but if other people do? That's great, Scotland is protected, and that's more important than other people dying.

Edited April 30, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Are you really suggesting that every single member of NATO is in it because they love a bit of NUKE.

No, i'm merely cutting thru the bullshit, to point out that those nations who claim to be anti-nuke while being members of NATO are talking hypocritical bollocks.

They've even cooked up a nice little routine for the lie, called "don't ask".

Will the SNP state the truth, that nukes will still reside (if only sometimes) in Scotland if iScotland is in NATO? No, Alex will lie to the Scottish people instead.

[LJS]

I'm not going to waste much time on your comments, Neil, most of which as ever are just repeating what you have said before.

I will just bring this little friend of yours out - I know how much you liked him

you will remember I promised he would return every time you misrepresented what I had said.

Of course you do, as does everyone in Scotland. And that's because you have a particularly sophisticated electorate up there, eh?

never said that

So, now you can revise your view that the nukes are at Faslane because of English hatred of the Scots

never said that or anything vaguely like it

The only true economic reality can be the one that is spoken by a yes-supporting Scotsman?

pretty much the opposite of what I said

Arguing against something your opponent has never said is one of the oldest tricks in the book. It's also easy as you can make ridiculous things up & then say. "look how ridiculous that is"

Arguing against someone who is never ever wrong is, on the other hand very difficult.

[LJS]

LJS, on 30 Apr 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

If the Tories win again they will of course be having an in-oot referendum so there is the very real prospect of Scotland heading in as rUK heads out

No there isn't, but don't let that stop you from making it up, eh?

David Cameron has promised to quit as Prime Minister if he is unable to deliver an in-out referendum on the European Union by 2017

Asked how they’d vote in a referendum on EU membership 40% say they would vote to stay, 37% say they would vote to leave.

Hardly grounds for such certainty I would suggest.

Edited April 30, 2014 by LJS

[eFestivals]

It is strange, however that rUK is so keen on the nuclear deterrent but also so keen that it is not based in England!

Yeah, of course you've never suggested that England is being deliberately nasty to Scotland with the nukes.

[eFestivals]

Hardly grounds for such certainty I would suggest.

some of us are paying full attention to current affairs, and others fall for SNP propaganda.

[LJS]

Yeah, of course you've never suggested that England is being deliberately nasty to Scotland with the nukes.

At last you have said something true about me. I think you will find that I have indeed never suggested that. I have never suggested England is deliberately nasty to Scotland in any way.

Although you are sometimes a bit cruel at Rugby!

I don't hate England. I don't hate English people. I don't hate English Jam.

[LJS]

some of us are paying full attention to current affairs, and others fall for SNP propaganda.

Nah you'll need to help me there

the two quotes were from the Daily Telegraph & the YouGov/Sunday Times poll

Have they now fallen under the Mighty Alex's hypnotic powers?

[eFestivals]

Nah you'll need to help me there

the two quotes were from the Daily Telegraph & the YouGov/Sunday Times poll

Have they now fallen under the Mighty Alex's hypnotic powers?

what you're failing to notice is that anti-EU sentiment is falling, and support for the EU is growing.

Anti-EU sentiment had a majority not so long ago. Farridge is losing, not winning.

[eFestivals]

I have never suggested England is deliberately nasty to Scotland in any way.

OK, if you want to be stupid-arse literal about it, you're correct.

But when you say that "rUK" is being nasty to Scotland to benefit the English - which you did - you might as well have not bothered with the rUK bit.

Or do you think the Welsh are part of same the conspiracy against Scotland too?

Edited April 30, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

But when you say that "rUK" is being nasty to Scotland to benefit the English - which you did - you might as well have not bothered with the rUK bit.

your friend is back, because "stupid literally" I haven't said that either

and sorry if its to much to ask you to respond to what I literally say & not what you, in your infinite wisdom read into it.

[LJS]

I have literally given your website enough hits for one night

I'm off for a beer

[LJS]

what you're failing to notice is that anti-EU sentiment is falling, and support for the EU is growing.

Anti-EU sentiment had a majority not so long ago. Farridge is losing, not winning.

I didn't fail to notice that

but I didn't point it out

Because all I am saying is that it is perfectly possible that the Uk - with or without Scotland will be voting on an in out referendum in 2017- & it is also perfectly possible that the result will be a no vote.

Are you so certain that the current trend in the polls will continue?

Remember the vote, if it happens, will follow an attempted renegotiation of the UK/rUK's terms of membership,which your favourite EU expert, José Manuel Barroso, has indicated will be well nigh impossible. So it is not hard to imagine a scenario where the noes pick up the couple of points needed to win.

Other scenarios are, of course, available.

[eFestivals]

Other scenarios are, of course, available.

Yep. Like my view of an EU referendum being right, and my view of Scotland's position regarding the EU being right.

You love to mention Salmond's "experts", but you do know that many more experts reject the view of Salmond's EU experts than agree with his EU experts, don't you?

Salmond has picked his EU "experts" on the basis of what they might do for his campaign, and not on the basis of their actual expertise or how the body of wider opinion falls.

[LJS]

Yep. Like my view of an EU referendum being right, and my view of Scotland's position regarding the EU being right.

Aye, that is what I meant when I said other scenarios are available.

Of course there are other permutations too.

Sadly, I am not blessed with your apparent certainty about the future.

[LJS]

you gotta love the daily Mail

Eastern Europeans in Scotland will vote 'Yes' and hand Alex Salmond victory in September's referendum (according to an SNP campaigner, that is)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614012/Eastern-Europeans-Scotland-vote-Yes-hand-Alex-Salmond-victory-Septembers-referendum-according-SNP-campaigner-is.html#ixzz30TNFnTsI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[eFestivals]

you gotta love the daily Mail

Salmond probably wins in the bullshitting stakes against them, even if the mail wins in the offensiveness stakes.

Edited May 1, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Fancy another "the SNP are like UKIP" comparison?

They both appreciate Putin's nicer side.

True story!

[eFestivals]

Here's a comparison that's better written than I'll ever manage that I stumbled across yesterday.

And before you decide to take offence to it, perhaps point out any factual inaccuracies along with registering your offence?

(no factual inaccuracies pointed out = acceptance ).

The two parties occupy different points on the political spectrum, to be sure, but are in many other respects astonishingly similar.

They're both separatist groups, thriving on popular discontent with the mistakes of more remote leaders in distant centres of power (London in the case of the Nats, Brussels in the case of the Ukippers.)

They both peddle simplistic nationalist narratives, the gist of which is that everything will get better the moment we get out from under the rule of the aforementioned hate figures. The possibility that change, whilst to the overall good, might actually bring about any disadvantages at all is dismissed out of hand.

They're both driven by charismatic leaders, both of whom are in their second terms after being called back to save the party and both of whom are expert in a brand of populist bluster centred on grievance. Both claim that their respective nations have been brutalised by malign external powers which need to be overthrown.

Both lead movements that are increasingly intolerant of any form of dissent, and where the more radical outriders are prone to condemn anybody expressing a contrary opinion using bitter personal insults and/or the language of treason.

They vaguely resemble a Janus-faced monster - one face regarding the EU with longing and turned away from Britain, the other the polar opposite - but are otherwise, essentially, of the same flesh. Quite uncanny really.

[LJS]

Here's a comparison that's better written than I'll ever manage that I stumbled across yesterday.

And before you decide to take offence to it, perhaps point out any factual inaccuracies along with registering your offence?

(no factual inaccuracies pointed out = acceptance ).

Yes I agree there are no factual inaccuracies.

Because there is not one fact.

There are a barrowload of opinions & of course I disagree with them as you are well aware.

I won't insult your intelligence by repeating my reasons yet again.

[LJS]

Salmond probably wins in the bullshitting stakes against them, even if the mail wins in the offensiveness stakes.

Do you think the express will join in by finding some link to the death of Lady Di & the SNP?

[eFestivals]

Yes I agree there are no factual inaccuracies.

Because there is not one fact.

PMSL. :lol:

I'm starting to think that better together are right after all, and that Scotland is doomed (tho for different reasons to why they said). :lol:

Edited May 1, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Do you think the express will join in by finding some link to the death of Lady Di & the SNP?

probably, cos Desmond has to find something to do with the pages he used to use promoting Channel 5.

[LJS]

PMSL. :lol:

Glad I cheered you up. Sometimes you do seem to take it all a bot seriously.

You will be glad to know I found the article pretty funny.

Don't know where you got it from but if it is meant to persuade folk to vote no, my guess is, like much of the BT campaign , it is as likely to have the opposite effect.

Here's hoping.