The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

SNP this

SNP that

Alex this

Alex that

Who had 200 canvassers out and about in Edinburgh housing schemes last weekend ? The SNP ? Nope.

who need to be getting the canvassers out much more, given the latest poll?

[Buff124]

yep, a deficit that iScotland will still have. Around £10Bn a year

For 2013 as a whole, the ONS said the UK was a net borrower of £65.7bn

EDIT: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/28/uk-current-account-deficit-bigger-forecast

Edited May 8, 2014 by Buff124

[eFestivals]

For 2013 as a whole, the ONS said the UK was a net borrower of £65.7bn

eh? No it wasn't. It was over £100Bn (about £115Bn, I think).

[Buff124]

Source ?

[eFestivals]

Source ?

well, some of the stuff I've just googled pretty much matched what you've said which surprised me, but there's also plenty of stuff that matches what I said.

For instance, from last December there's this ...

"Osborne also boasted on Thursday that the improving state of the economy meant the UK would fall £9 billion this year to just £111 billion"

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/05/autumn-statement-osborne_n_4390202.html

So i'm not sure what's true. My words about Scotland were based on info that matches that 'boast' of Osbornes, which I'm going to take as the correct thing (mostly cos it matches other stuff from over quite a few years).

Edited May 8, 2014 by eFestivals

[Buff124]

Huffington Post vs The Grauniad

What are we like ?

[eFestivals]

Huffington Post vs The Grauniad

What are we like ?

the thing you've linked to isn't about the budget deficit, but is the "UK current account deficit", a different thing.

[Buff124]

Neil, they're nicking your catchphrase.

Scotland. The UK. 10 Myths. 10 Facts.

Published 6 May 2014

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scotland-the-uk-10-myths-10-facts

Fact: Scotland spent £12 billion more than it raised in taxes last year

Fact: The Scotland Act 2012 - the largest devolution of tax powers in the UK’s history.

Fact: The Scottish Government assumes that oil and gas can be produced at zero costs

Fact: The union has been a huge success story (from joint sporting glory to the amazing scientific collaborations that created Dolly the sheep!)

[Buff124]

UK Public sector Net Debt ?

= £1 trillion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653

[Buff124]

PSNBR [public sector net borrowing requirement] ?

That's in your ballpark, around £107-£115 billion, depending who one believes.

[Buff124]

...and continuing the jam theme...

Guardian 19 March 2014

Osborne's budget is jam today – and damn tomorrow

None of the parties wants to admit the austerity lined up for voters – 2015's election winner will have lots of slashing to do

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/osborne-budget-elections-austerity-public-finances

[Buff124]

Russian peoples take interest in current affairs of Scotland. Good to read impartial international reporting of domestic situation.

EDINBURGH, May 7 (RIA Novosti)
UK Member of Parliament Repeats Call To ‘Bayonet’ Scottish Independence Supporters

Ian Davidson MP, who is Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, told RIA Novosti he was not advocating the literal bayonetting of pro-independence supporters following a No-vote, but added his comments were “in the context of the conflict being over and there would be the cleaning up to be done.”

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140507/189666653/UK-Member-of-Parliament-Repeats-Call-To-Bayonet-Scottish.html?

Mr Davidson assures Scottish people on-record that he does not advocate literal bayonetting of defeated pro-independence supporters. This is indeed a positive development.

[eFestivals]

People in the UK don't generally get where Russia is coming from (funnily enough I've just made a post here in another thread on that very point), and it seems likely the reverse is true too. Russia is still mentally attached to the lands of 'greater Russia', as well as having many separatist movements within its federated states.

Those ruskies weren't being too nice to Chechen separatists, as I remember it. So presumably, there's a fair amount of that sort of sentiment within the country, and those people don't much get why the UK has a different attitude towards its own separatists than Russia does.

Stupidity about national feelings isn't limited to just the English. Both Scotland and Russia can do it just as well.

[Buff124]

I still think the Russian news agency were a bit disappointed when Davidson's remarks about 'bayonetting the wounded' turned out to be metaphorical.

[LJS]

I still think the Russian news agency were a bit disappointed when Davidson's remarks about 'bayonetting the wounded' turned out to be metaphorical.

On a slightly unrelated note - is this the most peaceful & civilised independence campaign in recent times?

Most if not all such campaigns involve some form of disorder & often violence. Even Canada has suffered violence at the hands of Quebecois separatists. Can any one think of any more peaceful ones.

I am excluding movements that have no realistic chance of success - I am sure there is or has been a Cornish Independence movement which has never been of significant scale.

Incidentally, I would give credit to both sides in this. The UK, for all is faults some of which I may have mentioned in passing, has learnt its lessons primarily in Ireland & India & knows that if there is a genuine desire for independence there is no point in resisting. [by the way I am not directly comparing to Scotland to either Ireland or India - although we do drink a lot & love a good curry]

[LJS]

As I am sure you are all aware as keen music lovers, this is Eurovision Weekend.

I thought it would be good to salute Scotland's awesome contribution to Britain's proud Eurovision tradition

Let's start with the Sublime... Lula sweeping all before her with her visionary plea for independence "Boom-Bang-a-Bang"

I am sure you will agree she speaks for a nation in these inspired lyrics. It is no surprise that this swept all Europe before it & won at a canter.

Perhaps more astonishing & somewhat less know is Kenneth McKellar's ground breaking entry in the 1966 contest. Yes the year England put Germany to the Sword at Wembley, a Scotsman in a kilt represented the UK in Europe's premier cultural competition.

astonishingly this song did not win ... indeed it came 9th the UK's worst performance until Coco's entry in 1978

Clearly this anti-Scottish bias was the catalyst in starting the Scottish Independence movement that reaches its climax this year.

[Buff124]

Don't get me started on Scotland's contribution to popular music...

EDIT: it was either that or Ivor Cutler. Singing.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Buff124

[LJS]

Is there something wrong with Ivor Cutler?

I think this has some relevance to our debate.

http://youtu.be/emWWY5VIYUk

[kaosmark2]

Europe's premier cultural competition.

[LJS]

Another labour supporter realises the best chance of any sort of social justice comes through independence...

With less than 4 months to go till the referendum a disillusioned Better Together co-ordinator has defected to Labour for Independence and declared his support for a Yes vote on September 18^th.

Gary Wilson, 53, was for 6 months the local Better Together co-ordinator within the Edinburgh East Labour Party.

In explaining his conversion, Gary said “I had to step down from my role as I gradually realised that we are not in fact Better together. I have listened to all of the arguments whether economic, social or emotional and I am now convinced that Independence is the right thing for Scotland.”

“My decision to vote and campaign for a yes vote came as I was sitting in a room in a large house discussing Better together strategy with representatives from parties I have nothing in common with, parties that represent privilege, greed and the status quo, Notions completely at odds with my Labour background.”

http://www.labourforindy.com/

[LJS]

just in case anyone hasn't seen this...

it should be Scotland's Eurovision entry

[Buff124]

I'll see your Lady Alba, and raise you 50 Cent

[Buff124]

So, McCrone 2 is now out of the bag...

[Buff124]

Some Labour politicians were/are a bit confused as to how an oil fund is funded. Posted purely for light entertainment

Edited May 11, 2014 by Buff124

[LJS]

So, McCrone 2 is now out of the bag...

Indeed,

LABOUR ministers were repeatedly advised in the 1970s to set up an oil fund to secure a legacy from the North Sea but failed to do so, newly unearthed archive papers have revealed.

leading to this extraordinary situation

... leaving the UK and Iraq as the only oil-producing nations in the world without some form of savings fund.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/the-secret-oil-report-we-find-the-crucial-report-advising-westminster-not-t.24189400