The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

4 hours ago, zahidf said:

going well for the leadership contest

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Having listened to it I don't think she fobbed off the question.  She actually made her position quite clear. 

We need protection against people being forced into doing things but we also need protection for people to preach about their religion and beliefs.  She is correctly walking that line.

Obviously you lot don't care about the protection for religious free speach but there you go.  Set of bigots yourselves.   If you truly understand what the word means you might start to understand how your hatred for religious people and their view points is bigoted. 

I tell you what - she has given a more detailed answer than the other guy. 

Conversion therapy is a load of bollocks, it’s not real and churches like Kate’s can’t wave a magic wand and stop people being gay, nor is there any issue about being gay.

I think when you are talking about people volunteering to undergo this kind of thing we are going down a dangerous route. I agree with Starmer it should be completely banned.

[zahidf]

39 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

 

Fair play, my bad!

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I agree it's a lot of crap but this wasn't my point.

There is a worry that a vicar saying for example homosexuality is a sin would be classed as conversion therapy and hence made illegal.

Hasnt happened in any of the places which have banned conversion therapy, like France or Malta, so im calling bollocks on that argument

 

 

[zahidf]

19 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Call it what you want - we are talking about the UK and the UK isn't France or Malta and isn't even remotely comparable. We have used anti hate laws to attack free speech and this will be no different.  Opens up civil action as well where the benchmarks are much lower.

None of that is true and again isnt happening in other countries. Sounds like some bigots are just trying to reach for excuses so they can keep conversion therapy

[steviewevie]

anyway...not read the whole thing tbh, but does the bible actually say same sex people can't marry?

[steviewevie]

this same bible written by a bunch of blokes a few thousand years ago and interpreted to fit whatever cultural customs and power dynamics ever since. 

[LJS]

3 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Maybe start a new thread called - Bible Hour with Stevie 

Thou shalt not....

[zahidf]

More whiny victimhood from Forbes

It's particularly disgusting pointing the finger at Sadiq Khan, who received death threats for voting for same-sex marriage in 2013.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

More whiny victimhood from Forbes

It's particularly disgusting pointing the finger at Sadiq Khan, who received death threats for voting for same-sex marriage in 2013.

It’s rubbish because Blackford led the party in Westminster attending the church, but showing some critical thinking which views he believed and which not.

I have to admit over the years I have felt frustrated that the SNP have pretending to be a left wing party, while I felt in reality they were trying to be different things to different people (similar to Lib Dems in England) and that practice is now biting them on the bum.

My only sympathy for Forbes (who’s views i detest) is some in the SNP are acting totally shocked about these views. It was completely obvious from previous statements what her views almost certainly were, why didn’t the people endorsing her get some clarification first? My guess is most of those that endorsed and then changed their mind don’t really care about the views, but have been spooked by the social media backlash,  I don’t think they come out of it looking great.

[pink_triangle]

Nicola now weighing in against Forbes without explicitly naming her.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Nicola now weighing in against Forbes without explicitly naming her.

was she offering to lend Kate her T-shirt?

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

was she offering to lend Kate her T-shirt?

I don’t think Kate would feel comfortable seeing her without a top, I’m sure that would be against her almighty church as well.

[zahidf]

it is absolutely normal to ask how someone’s religious beliefs inform their positions on policy matters and completely normal to judge politicians on their beliefs.

[pink_triangle]

25 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

But more so if they are a women it would seem...  and once they give you an answer you never move on to the next question...

Cancel culture bollocks 🙂   You don't even care what the man thinks - you have a nice women to rough up - keep it classy 😛 

They have asked the man what he thinks and he has said he thinks the mainstream view. Now you can say he is making it up, but if you ask him the question you will get the same answer.

I believe if a man had those views and stated them he would be criticised as well. Ian Blackford attended the same church and made the decision not to endorse their views. It’s possible to go to a church and endorse some views and not others.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

They have asked the man what he thinks and he has said he thinks the mainstream view. Now you can say he is making it up, but if you ask him the question you will get the same answer.

I believe if a man had those views and stated them he would be criticised as well. Ian Blackford attended the same church and made the decision not to endorse their views. It’s possible to go to a church and endorse some views and not others.

jeez going round in circles. She got asked this stuff, and she gave an answer...and she really doesn't belong in a party that considers itself progressive. She's bright, but at same time stupid as fuck.  If these things are really important to her maybe she should set up her own crazy christian independence party. 

Farron went through something similar in England, and last time I checked he was a man, but so hard to tell these days.

[Neil]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I think we used to call that bullshitting to get votes.

So you really think the SNP is full of Church people who don't go along with all the anti-gay stuff.  Or do you think just maybe the SNP is the progressive party Nicola as tried to paint them as.  If you peel back the surface of that party they are not very progressive at all and pack full of people like 

Social attitudes surveys show that scotland is a socially conservative country, more than the UK avrrage. 

[LJS]

17 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think we used to call that bullshitting to get votes.

So you really think the SNP is full of Church people who don't go along with all the anti-gay stuff.  Or do you think just maybe the SNP is the progressive party Nicola as tried to paint them as.  If you peel back the surface of that party they are not very progressive at all and pack full of people like Kate.

 

15 minutes ago, Neil said:

Social attitudes surveys show that scotland is a socially conservative country, more than the UK avrrage. 

You will both have links to support your claims I presume?

[pink_triangle]

43 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think we used to call that bullshitting to get votes.

So you really think the SNP is full of Church people who don't go along with all the anti-gay stuff.  Or do you think just maybe the SNP is the progressive party Nicola as tried to paint them as.  If you peel back the surface of that party they are not very progressive at all and pack full of people like Kate.

At the end of the day it’s up to SNP members (and if he wins) the electorate of Scotland to pass judgement if they believe him. Unless you are proposing he takes a lie detector test I don’t see the value of asking the same questions to get the same answers.

I do think there will be loads of SNP churchgoers who are not as extreme as Kate. Politically I see them centre ground party with bits of everything, similar to the Lib Dems. I do think if their popularity takes a hit labour would be the main beneficiaries and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

[pink_triangle]

30 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

You will both have links to support your claims I presume?

While I don’t know if that is true or not. I would maintain that someone as socially conservative as Forbes couldn’t rise as high in labour, I’m undecided if they could in the Tory’s. I’m not sure if I could make a great argument why, but that’s my instinct.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

 

You will both have links to support your claims I presume?

I've given you links to the British social attitudes survey before now, try googling. 

[Neil]

46 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

While I don’t know if that is true or not. I would maintain that someone as socially conservative as Forbes couldn’t rise as high in labour, I’m undecided if they could in the Tory’s. I’m not sure if I could make a great argument why, but that’s my instinct.

Couldn't get that high in labour cos would resign over a policy mstter. Its not the done thing in nodding dog snp

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

While I don’t know if that is true or not. I would maintain that someone as socially conservative as Forbes couldn’t rise as high in labour, I’m undecided if they could in the Tory’s. I’m not sure if I could make a great argument why, but that’s my instinct.

Well she's in step with kemi bedanoch....

[LJS]

29 minutes ago, Neil said:

I've given you links to the British social attitudes survey before now, try googling. 

No thanks. You made the claim. It's up to you to justify it. I am fairly confident you just plucked it out of your arse.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

While I don’t know if that is true or not. I would maintain that someone as socially conservative as Forbes couldn’t rise as high in labour, I’m undecided if they could in the Tory’s. I’m not sure if I could make a great argument why, but that’s my instinct.

If she had not been on maternity leave which meant she avoided the vote on the GRA stuff, she would have had to either vote for it or resign her government position