a big UK festi has been cancelled today..?

[eFestivals]

If a festival is cancelled who gets paid? Not thinking if bloc but more about the fair few that have been cancelled like sonisphere and the ones due to weather.

Landowners? Do bands get paid for being booked or only after performing? I heard pukkelpop lost around 75m euros when that got cancelled last year due to the storms.

it's probably the case that the fests that have cancelled due to the weather have weather insurance.

[eFestivals]

This is a Crowdsurge ticket URL:-

http://www.crowdsurge.com/et-TicketBarcodeBig.php?code=847042

If you increment the number at the end, you can get the next barcode and then the next barcode, and then the next barcode.

Try it for yourself. Please!! This has just got horribly legal, and eFestivals might need all the witnesses it can get to defend our suggestion that there were issues with the ticketing system which contributed towards the cancellation of Bloc.

eFestivals is going to stand its ground with this. I very much hope that that decision does not cause the end of eFestivals.

[eFestivals]

In response to the threat of legal action from Crowdsurge that I've recieved this morning....

Thank you for your letter. We have considered its contents, and have reviewed our article.

We believe that there is enough evidence to substantiate the suggestion (note: a suggestion, not a firmly stated fact) that there might have been some issues with the Crowdsurge ticketing system which ultimately led to the cancellation of this event.

I draw your attention to the following URL on the Crowdsurge ticketing system, which is URL that provides a barcode for a purchased ticket:-

http://www.crowdsurge.com/et-TicketBarcodeBig.php?code=847042

I suggest that you load the URL yourself, and then increment the number at the end of the URL by one. You will see that a new barcode is created, one which the user is not entitled to have. I of course retain evidence of this being able to happen to produce to a court if need be.

If you do not prove this flaw to yourself on receipt of this email, I believe that it might be regarded as a negligence in investigating this matter.

This flaw in the Crowdsurge ticketing system allows any person to self-generate extra tickets for themselves.

Whether or not the electronic system at the gates allowed a person to enter with one of these fraudulently generated barcodes I cannot say, but the very fact they could be fraudulently created is likely to have led to people arriving at the event with these fraudulently generated barcodes from the Crowdsurge system, and so cause too many people to try to enter the event.

As such, we believe that our article has enough of a basis in fact for the suggestion of an issue with the Crowdsurge ticketing system having a part within what happened to stand up to scrutiny, and so the article will not be removed.

Regarding the source who contacted us, we cannot give you a name. We were telephoned anonymously.

You are of course within your rights to pursue legal action, and if you were to be successful you would succeed in forcing NRG Internet Ltd into administration. However, I wish to draw to your attention that NRG Internet Ltd has few assets - and that is the same for me personally - and so it is extremely likely that the costs of any legal action put against NRG Internet Ltd or myself would not succeed in being recovered.

I reserve the right to make public this response to your letter, so that there are numerous witnesses to the flaw in the Crowdsurge ticketing system which I outline above.

Edited July 13, 2012 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

Maybe you should contact the Bloc organisors if you can, to see if they can help you with this?

Also, There is a anti-libel group around online run by people who helped Simon Singh, who may be of help generally for this sort of thing. I can't remeber the name, but hopefully you can find it.

Edited July 13, 2012 by zahidf

[lharris92]

just looked at the url, changed the number and so did the bar code...

[eFestivals]

Maybe you should contact the Bloc organisors if you can, to see if they can help you with this?

Also, There is a anti-libel group around online run by people who helped Simon Singh, who may be of help generally for this sort of thing. I can't remeber the name, but hopefully you can find it.

For the moment I'm happy with them having my response. I'll have to wait to see where it goes.

If it does go somewhere I'll follow things up where I need to.

[dacbo]

whilst I totally stand by efestivals on this one, its worth noting that the URL you've provided is just a standard barcode generator, like the following:

http://www.barcodesi...rator/index.php

so being able to change the URL in itself is not the flaw.

the mistake that crowdsurge have made is using the same incremental ticket number for their barcode making it very succeptible to fraud. My tickets were 100xx37 and 100xx38 so all I would have needed to do is produce a ticket with 100xx39 and make sure I arrived at the site before the person who'd actually bought that ticket to gain entry.

What Crowdsurge should have been doing, and what I anticipate all the major ticket operators who scan barcodes use, is a randomly generated unique, non-incremental sequence per ticket. Probably (and I'm getting a little technical here) an encrypted version of the ticket number, or similar, that only their scanners can decrypt. This makes it very difficult to fake as you'd need access to their algorithm and private keys to generate additional barcodes.

Edited July 13, 2012 by dacbo

[incident]

Are CrowdSurge just using sequential numbers on their tickets?

If so, then the problem is deeper than stated above.

This site is just a standard online barcode generator. Go there, put in 847042, and you'll get he same barcode as on the CrowdSurge link above.

There's plenty sites like it and plenty of software that can generate standard barcodes. It'd be exceptionally easy to fake tickets if they were using sequential numbers - but surely no ticketing company could make that basic a mistake?

[eFestivals]

Are CrowdSurge just using sequential numbers on their tickets?

If so, then the problem is deeper than stated above.

This site is just a standard online barcode generator. Go there, put in 847042, and you'll get he same barcode as on the CrowdSurge link above.

There's plenty sites like it and plenty of software that can generate standard barcodes. It'd be exceptionally easy to fake tickets if they were using sequential numbers - but surely no ticketing company could make that basic a mistake?

whether or not their gate systems would let someone in is one thing.

But the fact that people can generate what they believe to be fraudulent tickets means that some people will - and which will lead to people turning up at the gates with those fraudulent tickets.

The numbers at the gate but outside the event played a part in the decision to close the event. With that in mind, I find it hard to understand why Crowdsurge believes their systems had no part in what happened.

[mikeb]

This is a Crowdsurge ticket URL:-

http://www.crowdsurg...php?code=847042

If you increment the number at the end, you can get the next barcode and then the next barcode, and then the next barcode.

Edited July 13, 2012 by mikeb

[dacbo]

Yup, type any 6 digit number you like into that URL and up comes the 'right' barcode. It would appear to be somewhat open to easy abuse to say the very least ... although *IF* an entry scan system was being used *AND* it was working correctly then it should quite obviously only accept the very first occurrence of any particular barcode of course (rejecting any duplicates or inappropriate numbers) regardless of whether it was actually being presented by the genuine purchaser or otherwise. A correctly working system should only have admitted the 'right' number of people through the gates - any duplicates or otherwise dodgy barcodes should have been flagged up immediately and the holder refused entry. It's probably much the same story with any form of e-ticket TBH. Without requiring and checking some other form of ID as well to confirm that the barcoide holder is the genuine purchaser then it's probably not that difficult to abuse any e-ticket system.

This kinda demonstrates the primary reason why I dislike e-tickets in general and will always choose a 'real' ticket option if available even if it costs more in one way or another. It just feels like a touts and scammers paradise and all that otherwise

Edited July 13, 2012 by dacbo

[mikeb]

please see my previous post regarding sequential ticket numbers and encryption. the last time I bought two e-tickets from ticketweb, the barcode numbers were: 12-digit non-sequential numbers.

[dacbo]

Posted before seeing your reply as I took so long typing But whilst I can obviously appreciate that various steps can be taken to minimise the potential for abuse, I have absolutely no idea if any such steps are generally speaking taken. The only e-ticket that I've had to use recently seemed to be almost as abusable as the scenario that is being suggested here. However, it was for a free seated gig at a well known major venue and I think additional ID was required in any case although having said that, I don't think it was actually checked !

Edited July 13, 2012 by dacbo

[LondonTom]

Jesus, how fucking stupid can they get? Works here and can change the number, and if they was indeed using sequential numbers it would be ridiculously easy to abuse!

(I built a similar system for my dissertation at uni, didn't think about the numbers but it was based on a photo ID check coming up on the scanners, much like the glasto system )

[zahidf]

Good news ( maybe) for ATP

'

Statement Regarding Changes Within ATP:

We have now completed a restructuring of the business of ATP Concerts Limited. This involved the Voluntary Liquidation of ATP Concerts Limited and transfer of its assets (including the rights to the All Tomorrow's Parties festival, label, and shows) to a new company called Willwal Limited. We will also be dividing the business into three different companies; ATP Festivals, ATP Recordings and ATP Shows.

The team however, remain the same, having been transferred over to Willwal Limited - and the festival is still called All Tomorrow's Parties. All future events will continue as scheduled on the dates advertised and all tickets for those events are still valid.

ATP remains unwaveringly committed to hosting world class events. Since our inception it has been our mission to provide quality concerts for discerning music lovers around the world - our number one priority has always been the bands and the fans and we work hard, sometimes under difficult circumstances, to achieve the highest standards possible. It is a tough climate out there, but this restructuring will ensure that ATP is around for many more years to come. We thank the fans who have stood by us over the years and especially during this recent time of reorganisation.

Other news we are announcing today is that the U.S. event on September 21 - 23 is to be moved from Asbury Park, New Jersey to Manhattan, New York. This is due to logistical reasons and a full press release regarding the move will be posted here. Anyone unable to attend due to this change will be able to request a full refund.

We have many exciting developments and opportunities available to us that will be announced over the coming months. We will be continuing the work we have done over the past 13 years and would like to thank everyone for their kind support over the past week - we apologise that this statement has taken longer than anticipated to be released (due to needing certain legal clearances) - we thank you again for your patience and apologise for any unnecessary worry caused.

On Monday we will announce the first bands for this December's Nightmare Before Christmas festival curated by Shellac.

Yours sincerely,

Barry Hogan

ATP

[kaosmark2]

Good news ( maybe) for ATP

'

Statement Regarding Changes Within ATP:

We have now completed a restructuring of the business of ATP Concerts Limited. This involved the Voluntary Liquidation of ATP Concerts Limited and transfer of its assets (including the rights to the All Tomorrow's Parties festival, label, and shows) to a new company called Willwal Limited. We will also be dividing the business into three different companies; ATP Festivals, ATP Recordings and ATP Shows.

The team however, remain the same, having been transferred over to Willwal Limited - and the festival is still called All Tomorrow's Parties. All future events will continue as scheduled on the dates advertised and all tickets for those events are still valid.

ATP remains unwaveringly committed to hosting world class events. Since our inception it has been our mission to provide quality concerts for discerning music lovers around the world - our number one priority has always been the bands and the fans and we work hard, sometimes under difficult circumstances, to achieve the highest standards possible. It is a tough climate out there, but this restructuring will ensure that ATP is around for many more years to come. We thank the fans who have stood by us over the years and especially during this recent time of reorganisation.

Other news we are announcing today is that the U.S. event on September 21 - 23 is to be moved from Asbury Park, New Jersey to Manhattan, New York. This is due to logistical reasons and a full press release regarding the move will be posted here. Anyone unable to attend due to this change will be able to request a full refund.

We have many exciting developments and opportunities available to us that will be announced over the coming months. We will be continuing the work we have done over the past 13 years and would like to thank everyone for their kind support over the past week - we apologise that this statement has taken longer than anticipated to be released (due to needing certain legal clearances) - we thank you again for your patience and apologise for any unnecessary worry caused.

On Monday we will announce the first bands for this December's Nightmare Before Christmas festival curated by Shellac.

Yours sincerely,

Barry Hogan

ATP

[thetime]

Interesting article in the guardian about the state of festivals.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/jul/12/great-british-musical-festival-washout?cat=music&type=article

[dacbo]

there's a rumour going around that London Pleasure Gardens is going to be shut down permanently in couple months (I assume once they've fulfilled their Olympic commitments).

Nice use of £8million then... (inc £3million from local gvmt and councils).

[jump]

lhttp://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/12/120724c.shtml

So the Big Chill looks certain to be scrapped and replaced with "a completely fresh take on what a festival should be."

Anyone got any ideas on what that could be?

[LondonTom]

Anyone got any ideas on what that could be?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

lhttp://www.efestival...2/120724c.shtml

So the Big Chill looks certain to be scrapped and replaced with "a completely fresh take on what a festival should be."

Anyone got any ideas on what that could be?

[zahidf]

Good article on ATP's problems

http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/feature-tomorrows-world.html

[TalkShow Bob]

Posted before seeing your reply as I took so long typing But whilst I can obviously appreciate that various steps can be taken to minimise the potential for abuse, I have absolutely no idea if any such steps are generally speaking taken. The only e-ticket that I've had to use recently seemed to be almost as abusable as the scenario that is being suggested here. However, it was for a free seated gig at a well known major venue and I think additional ID was required in any case although having said that, I don't think it was actually checked !