Dispatches- The Great Ticket Scandal, C4 Thursday 9pm

[TYLER_4]

Any ticket brought of any site, and then sold on Viagogo is technically sold by a fan!

There might be powersellers (Touts) who are buying loads and then selling on Viagogo, this still wouldnt mean that Viagogo is breaking the law. The Powersellers are still genuine fans in Viagogos words becuase they ahve brought tickets which they no longer need!

The only way to stop this is by making it more difficult for touts, so putting pictures on tickets is the only way forward!

[Vieuphoria]

free market.

i joke... they are c**ts.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Vieuphoria

[eFestivals]

I've just had a very long chat with the Chairman of the CPA.

His general view is that none of this touting is happening without the full agreement with everyone in the chain - bands, agents, promoters.

He actually made that statement with naming a specific band. I said "can I quote you on that". He then backed away, saying "let's see if that band make a public statement about it".

He believes that we live in a free market and touting is that free market in operation. I kept pressing the point that if it's just that - and bands, promoters and the like have nothing to be ashamed of about how they operate - they should have no problem in being open and honest about supplying the secondary market in the way that they have been doing.

He accepted my general point that how they have been operating is a breech of the CPA's code of conduct (here:http://www.concertpromotersassociation.co.uk/code.aspx) for items 1, 3, 4, 5, & 9 but that the CPA cannot control how their members operate. He did say that this would be raised at the CPA's next meeting, but that the CPA would not take action against members.

[jump]

Even if you put pics on the tixs people still try touting them. When Rage were doing that free gig a few years ago I saw a few people trying to sell them on Ebay, one of them was asking for £30 as he "had to pay for postage".

Edited February 24, 2012 by jump

[jump]

I've just had a very long chat with the Chairman of the CPA.

His general view is that none of this touting is happening without the full agreement with everyone in the chain - bands, agents, promoters.

He actually made that statement with naming a specific band. I said "can I quote you on that". He then backed away, saying "let's see if that band make a public statement about it".

He believes that we live in a free market and touting is that free market in operation. I kept pressing the point that if it's just that - and bands, promoters and the like have nothing to be ashamed of about how they operate - they should have no problem in being open and honest about supplying the secondary market in the way that they have been doing.

He accepted my general point that how they have been operating is a breech of the CPA's code of conduct (here:http://www.concertpr...co.uk/code.aspx) for items 1, 3, 4, 5, & 9 but that the CPA cannot control how their members operate. He did say that this would be raised at the CPA's next meeting, but that the CPA would not take action against members.

[mrtourette]

He believes that we live in a free market and touting is that free market in operation. I kept pressing the point that if it's just that - and bands, promoters and the like have nothing to be ashamed of about how they operate - they should have no problem in being open and honest about supplying the secondary market in the way that they have been doing.

[lharris92]

watched it on 4od, shocking but they get away with it because noones cracking down on it.

hope they do soon though

[eFestivals]

Did they mention that anyone breaking the rules could be chucked out in theory or practice?

Nope. The exact opposite. Nothing will happen. He said "the AA has rules for its members too, but it doesn't kick them out if they break the speed limits".

But he said that the suggestion will be made to members, that they should operate with honesty and integrity and not in an underhand manner.

[kev1664]

Yeh i know, but thats ticket touting! Its always happened, my next door neighbour could be doing it right now. Its a way of making money and its being exploited by the compaines. There doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law!

Ive never do it, as i only have the funds to by my ticket for Leeds but if you had a option of selling your ticket at face value but you knew you could get more on one of these sites i know what i would do if i didnt need the ticket anymore!

What they are doing is highly immoral and shameful, but the Law is allowing them to do it!

[Justiceforcedave]

Think you find they said it was Highly Immoral not wrong!

And to the other comment above, in relation to the comment ive made about a reseller being genuine or not! Without being found guilty by the law of touting, they are allowed to sell these tickets on these sites with no reason at all!

Apart from selling tickets stright from the supplyer, any other ticket they sell is genuine and legal to what they advertise! The ones where they buy them themselves, yes they are buying them for the company but they are brought under names and adresses of the workers, who have just as much right to put these tickets on the site!

The point im making is, there is a massive flaw in these types of websites and these companies are making the most of it! Its a flaw, not breaking the law

[jump]

I like these quotes from the Guradian, it does raise the question by treating tix touting as an enterprise does live music become less of an "art" form and sporting events no longer a show of support by fans? The there's also another point that some bands & sports organisations put price caps on so it maintains a grass root level.

Such an argument reduces cultural and sporting events of immense national importance to mere commodities from which a few bob can be made.

The Tory MP Sajid Javid maintains that ticket reselling is "an excellent example of the enterprise culture and of what a classic entrepreneur does". Such an argument reduces cultural and sporting events of immense national importance to mere commodities from which a few bob can be made.

However, in many cases, the "gap in the market" that a tout exploits is simply the fact that the market value of sold-out events is often higher than the price set by artists and venues. For example, a newly famous indie rock band will often cap prices to ensure that their grassroots fans are not priced out of the market, taking a pay cut only to see third parties profiteering from their idealism. This explains the furious reaction of the Rugby Football Union, who have taken Viagogo to court to force it to reveal the identities of those who sold tickets via its website; the RFU's noble efforts to distribute large quantities of tickets at a grassroots level is ingrained in the culture of the game and is being sabotaged by resale sites.

[charlie2times]

Yes, but wasn't it said that viagogo are actually buying shedloads of tickets, and then reselling them for above the value.

That's illegal for footie , why not for music?

Also, the 'charge' ticket sellers put on for each transaction, even though you might buy 4 tickets at once needs looking into.

As does charging 'postage' for an e-ticket.

The glasto way id not right either, cuase it means you'd have to have access to a PC to ever buy tickets, pluas a digital camera, AND it means you couldn't genuinely get your money back by selling tickets at cost if you couldn't go for some reason.

[lharris92]

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/12/120224j.shtml

[lharris92]

oh and efests if you read this - is there a way you can ban certain ads from being on the site as at the top of that article there is an ad to viashitgo..

[jump]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20120224_tickets.shtml

Here's BBC 6 talking to the boss of Viagogo and the MP who's trying to bring in some touting rules.

[JBarbour]

Surely Trading Standards or some other governing body needs to get involved, they need enforce standards for products and services to be as described. Viagogo is in breach of both of them standards

[mrtourette]

Surely Trading Standards or some other governing body needs to get involved, they need enforce standards for products and services to be as described. Viagogo is in breach of both of them standards

[edfirth]

This was posted on Leeds forums, thought it might be of interest

'http://www.competition-co..._main_party_submission

A Competiton Commission report on a proposed merger between Ticketmaster and Live Nation from July 2009. Paragraph 4.48:

"That secondary ticket agents are looking to move towards selling primary

allocations alongside their traditional secondary market is further demonstrated by the fact that Live Nation has allocated primary tickets to both Seatwave and viagogo for its festivals this season and [REDACTED]"

Potential mergers are referred to the competition commission by the Government to establish whether 2 companies can merge, these documents are official. It's pretty conclusive from this that Viagogo were given "an allocation" of Leeds festival tickets by Live Nation, which we know from this Dispatches documentary means that they were sold on the Viagogo website and the promoter received a 90% profit. In fairness, this could mean that it's Live Nation rather than FR who are at fault here.

Would be interesting to know what was redacted too. '

Edited February 24, 2012 by edfirth

[eFestivals]

Just had an interesting email from a promoter, who points out that even the first sale agents are being shafted by the major promoters - who generally charge them over face value to supply them with the tickets in the first place.

One of the smaller ticket agents I know once told me that they'd had to pay 10% over face value to get tickets for a major festival, meaning that they were selling them at a loss. They went along with it only because they felt that having those tickets would raise their profile and so their ability to get other tickets.

[tjamest]

Suprisingly no sign of this story on NME.com in their news section.

Worried about losing advertising from the promoters perhaps?

[MEGABOWL]

I've just had a very long chat with the Chairman of the CPA.

His general view is that none of this touting is happening without the full agreement with everyone in the chain - bands, agents, promoters.

He actually made that statement with naming a specific band. I said "can I quote you on that". He then backed away, saying "let's see if that band make a public statement about it".

He believes that we live in a free market and touting is that free market in operation. I kept pressing the point that if it's just that - and bands, promoters and the like have nothing to be ashamed of about how they operate - they should have no problem in being open and honest about supplying the secondary market in the way that they have been doing.

He accepted my general point that how they have been operating is a breech of the CPA's code of conduct (here:http://www.concertpr...co.uk/code.aspx) for items 1, 3, 4, 5, & 9 but that the CPA cannot control how their members operate. He did say that this would be raised at the CPA's next meeting, but that the CPA would not take action against members.

[edfirth]

Suprisingly no sign of this story on NME.com in their news section.

Worried about losing advertising from the promoters perhaps?

[MEGABOWL]

Yes, but wasn't it said that viagogo are actually buying shedloads of tickets, and then reselling them for above the value.

That's illegal for footie , why not for music?

Also, the 'charge' ticket sellers put on for each transaction, even though you might buy 4 tickets at once needs looking into.

As does charging 'postage' for an e-ticket.

The glasto way id not right either, cuase it means you'd have to have access to a PC to ever buy tickets, pluas a digital camera, AND it means you couldn't genuinely get your money back by selling tickets at cost if you couldn't go for some reason.

[Paul ™]

Who runs NME tickets?

On their website

Your one-stop ticket shop. Get tickets for festivals, live music, comedy, gigs and tours.

New! Get tickets for sold out tours and concerts.

http://www.nme.com/tickets

Probably in on it too...

Edited February 24, 2012 by Paul ™

[mrtourette]

One of the smaller ticket agents I know once told me that they'd had to pay 10% over face value to get tickets for a major festival, meaning that they were selling them at a loss. They went along with it only because they felt that having those tickets would raise their profile and so their ability to get other tickets.