2013/ the future of soni?

[kaosmark2]

The price would have to be £80 or (preferable) less to compete against the day festival tickets (download £82, reading £90) but also Hard rock calling and wirless prices which are £40-£60 i believe?

[willutalk]

Waken and Hell Fest are festivals I really admire because I really like the dual stage arena system. I think it could work out well with a good line-up. Cram the sets in with little gap in the breaks between the sets. Get a good mix of metal and rock!

[kipper64]

I love the alternating system, I don't get why people say there's no alternatives. There is! Another whole 3 stages and to be honest the calibre of acts in Bohemia is generally on par with Download's second stage up untill (usually) the top 3. It also means you basically get 14 mainstage calibre acts. It's not a perfect system, but then neither is big clashing stages too imo. I'd rather run the risk of having nothing to watch for an hour or so, because you can at least do something else like get food or have a drink, then have 2 big bands clash and having to choose. But I guess it's just all down to personal preference.

I don't think cancelling the festival can ever been seen as a good thing, but due to it being this year with the olympics and stuff, I think it does give them somewhat of a scapegoat which is why I don't think the brand is completely ruined. Sure it'll put quite a few people off, and it's a set back, but the general reaction from those going or those not going was that they were sad to see it go and seemed willing to give it another shot next year if the line up is up to the par with previous years

[gary1979666]

Yeah, I agree. I prefer the alternating stage - no waiting around between sets and can get food during the sets I'm less keen on which means less queue as everyone is doing the same throughout the day, rather than piling to the stalls between bands.

The clashing at Download this year put me of buying a ticket (purely down to my tastes, had the order of the bands been different, would have been a different story) - so for the Sat, Corey, YM@6, KSE, Metalica, Biffy was a clash hell. Also Dropkicks, Rise Against / Soundgarden, Sabbath. If could see 90% of them on an alternating basis, then would have snapped up a ticket.

[Justiceforcedave]

If they do it and get a stonking lineup then I don't think it'll be a problem.

People can yell about the reputation being in tatters until they're blue in the face but ultimately everyone got their money back and if all your favourite bands are playing in one place then you'll pay to go see them!

[jump]

If they do it and get a stonking lineup then I don't think it'll be a problem.

People can yell about the reputation being in tatters until they're blue in the face but ultimately everyone got their money back and if all your favourite bands are playing in one place then you'll pay to go see them!

Edited May 22, 2012 by jump

[AcademicPistol]

Yeah, I agree. I prefer the alternating stage - no waiting around between sets and can get food during the sets I'm less keen on which means less queue as everyone is doing the same throughout the day, rather than piling to the stalls between bands.

The clashing at Download this year put me of buying a ticket (purely down to my tastes, had the order of the bands been different, would have been a different story) - so for the Sat, Corey, YM@6, KSE, Metalica, Biffy was a clash hell. Also Dropkicks, Rise Against / Soundgarden, Sabbath. If could see 90% of them on an alternating basis, then would have snapped up a ticket.

[kipper64]

But what if there's only a few bands you want to see tho? Unless it's a back to back incredible line up people will think twice when there's other festivals available.

The Olympics wasn't blamed by the fans or the organisers, it was the piss poor line up leading to poor sales.

I think people are looking at this and are thinking the only the damage to the reputation is from cancelling, aswell as that their was a lead up of series of delayed announcements/lack of communication and then put out a very poor line up with a very controversial (complaints ranging from their pop to X-factor boy is pissing on Freddie's grave) headliner. You'd also have to factor in the brand itself wasn't even strong enough to go 4 years in a row in the 1st place.

Edited May 22, 2012 by kipper64

[eFestivals]

it's a very 'challenging year to put on a festival'

That's exceedingly true.

However, most people seem to have the idea that next year will be significantly better, when I'm far from sure that'll be the case.

They'll possibly be a boost of sorts next year with the return of Glasto and no Olympics attracting bands back to Britain, but I'm a VERY long way from being sure that the levels of festival interest of recent years will come back any time soon (or even after a significant economic upturn).

From where I'm sat, I'm of the belief that the fashion for festivals peaked several years ago but that's been 'hidden' from many folk by the continued sell-outs by some of the bigger fests.

There's around 300,000 less UK festival tickets being sold this year - with the absence of Glasto, Soni, & Big Chill - and not all of those 'gone missing' people have been distracted by the Olympics or not-attracted by the line-ups on offer.

As Eavis said a while back, the boom has peaked with festivals because there's little that's new and most people have seen it all before. He's less far off the mark than most people felt he was at the time he said that.

[jump]

Oh I know they didn't explicitly say it was due to the Olympics, just that it's a very 'challenging year to put on a festival', which has lead many people to attribute it to the olympics or just the general economic climate. That was my point, that that has been most of the general reaction and most (albeit there will obviously be some who are angry) are sad to see it cancelled and seemed willing to give it another chance in the future.

The thing about the poor line up damaging them, that's surely easily fixed? All they need to do is put out a good line up next year then people can't really complain about that, hence the only real damage is from cancelling imo as people might be weary to book hotels/flights as they are generally non-refundable, the communication thing was more down to things not going well for them hence the delay, but in the past they've been great at communicating so again, that's something that's fixable assuming things go better for them next year.

Anyways like I said earlier, they'll only be back if the bands fall into place in good time for them I imagine, if they can get a bill together that matches 2010/2011, and in good time, I can see them making a return, however if things look to be taking too long and look like they are heading for another year like this year, they won't go for it.

Edited May 22, 2012 by jump

[jump]

That's exceedingly true.

However, most people seem to have the idea that next year will be significantly better, when I'm far from sure that'll be the case.

They'll possibly be a boost of sorts next year with the return of Glasto and no Olympics attracting bands back to Britain, but I'm a VERY long way from being sure that the levels of festival interest of recent years will come back any time soon (or even after a significant economic upturn).

From where I'm sat, I'm of the belief that the fashion for festivals peaked several years ago but that's been 'hidden' from many folk by the continued sell-outs by some of the bigger fests.

There's around 300,000 less UK festival tickets being sold this year - with the absence of Glasto, Soni, & Big Chill - and not all of those 'gone missing' people have been distracted by the Olympics or not-attracted by the line-ups on offer.

As Eavis said a while back, the boom has peaked with festivals because there's little that's new and most people have seen it all before. He's less far off the mark than most people felt he was at the time he said that.

Edited May 22, 2012 by jump

[kipper64]

Being more niché festivals though surely they are affected somewhat differently, which was apparent by both doing well in 2010 and 2011, well download had a smaller year than in the past but think they still sold somewhere in the region of 60-70k tickets? The main issue with both is though if there's enough bands to go around. Obviously this year Download got all the big names that sell tickets, and with Soni being so late to the punch that spelled their doom - as much as it being a poor line up for a festival obviously. Obviously this year is worse than previous years, but I would have imagined there's still room for both to do well, although as shown this year if one does extremely well there's not room for the other, at least if the one doing not so well is Sonisphere as it's less established so has to work harder for ticket sales.

I also think on the whole people being tired of the same ol' is certainly true for some ( I feel that way anyways), but the fact that Download's saturday was the first day to sell out completely on day tickets and it's yet another metallica headlined rock festival, with a bunch of bands who played Download (or Sonisphere) in the past year or two. I think the only 'new' band is Tenacious D on that day, and I doubt they were the sole reason for it selling out considering I don't think even their own dates have sold out

Either way anyone who thinks Download will instantly become awesome because of no sonisphere is a tad moronic, they've had shite years in the past without Soni around, 2008 being the most recent example, and they've had some of their best years because of the competition, they've started announcing and sorting bands out earlier and it's caused them to put together a very successful line up this year. Obviously it can work both ways, like last year many thought they were somewhat struggling particularly headliner-wise but no Sonisphere isn't definitely going to mean good things for Download. You might be right on the pre-sale tickets thing though, but again they probably won't start selling tickets without bands anyways (if they come back), and in reality how many people actually bought pre-sale tickets out of the 12,000 apparently sold? Probably a few thousand at most.

Edited May 22, 2012 by kipper64

[jump]

Being more niché festivals though surely they are affected somewhat differently, which was apparent by both doing well in 2010 and 2011, well download had a smaller year than in the past but think they still sold somewhere in the region of 60-70k tickets? The main issue with both is though if there's enough bands to go around. Obviously this year Download got all the big names that sell tickets, and with Soni being so late to the punch that spelled their doom - as much as it being a poor line up for a festival obviously.

I also think on the whole people being tired of the same ol' is certainly true for some ( I feel that way anyways), but the fact that Download's saturday was the first day to sell out completely on day tickets and it's yet another metallica headlined rock festival, with a bunch of bands who played Download (or Sonisphere) in the past year or two. I think the only 'new' band is Tenacious D on that day, and I doubt they were the sole reason for it selling out considering I don't think even their own dates have sold out

Either way anyone who thinks Download will instantly become awesome because of no sonisphere is a tad moronic, they've had shite years in the past without Soni around, 2008 being the most recent example, and they've had some of their best years because of the competition, they've started announcing and sorting bands out earlier and it's caused them to put together a very successful line up this year. Obviously it can work both ways, like last year many thought they were somewhat struggling particularly headliner-wise but no Sonisphere isn't definitely going to mean good things for Download. You might be right on the pre-sale tickets thing though, but again they probably won't start selling tickets without bands anyways (if they come back), and in reality how many people actually bought pre-sale tickets out of the 12,000 apparently sold? Probably a few thousand at most.

[kaosmark2]

I don't think anyone wants to see a fest go tits up regardless of if they liked it or not, even Copping didn't have a dig at them. I mentioned it was a shame to see Big Chill get canned this year but I have no intrest in going to it but unlike Big Chill I have actually seen a good few people say they happy for it to go away so Download will be stronger.

Maybe but I did I hear a load of compalints for people saying they were never going to get pre-sale tixs again and based on this year's line up and a lot of people will go straight to Download without a 2nd thought of what Soni may have if it does go ahead.

[Dan R]

With people saying the brand has been damaged, I dont think itll affect the customers as such, but would bands be willing to risk travelling to the uk to play a fest which might not happen ahead of other more established festivals, especially if they tey to go for exclusives.

[biffoire]

The problem I think they may face in future years will be people buying late. So people making sure the festival is going ahead before commiting. But then I think DL suffers from that as it rarely sells out.

[jump]

With people saying the brand has been damaged, I dont think itll affect the customers as such, but would bands be willing to risk travelling to the uk to play a fest which might not happen ahead of other more established festivals, especially if they tey to go for exclusives.

[kaosmark2]

I wouldn't say the two are the same thing but unless you started clapping and cheering when you heard it was cancelled you get my point.

[kipper64]

I don't think the bands would be that fussed to be honest, especially with the K2 Agency heavily invested in it (and I don't think that has changed despite AEG no longer backing it), and the people who run it. They managed to convince bands to come along the first year, despite the festival being a major risk, they're still getting bands to promote for tours etc... Obviously as I said, it'd depend on whether they are early enough and they have big enough bands on side whether they'd pull it off, but I don't think it being cancelled will cause to much of an issue with bands or even services - especially as services is surely something sorted out once tickets have been on sale so they'll know if it's going to be a success or not.

[eFestivals]

I don't think the bands would be that fussed to be honest

yes they will. They want to fill their diary's with show dates that will pay them, not lose potential bookings around a show date that won't.

They managed to convince bands to come along the first year, despite the festival being a major risk, they're still getting bands to promote for tours etc...

there's less risk and potential future benefits with taking a booking for a new fest with major backing than there is with a failed fest that has lost its major backing.

As for whether "they're still getting bands to promote for tours etc", are you sure about that? I don't know either way, but it's quite possible that all of the current activity you're seeing are the results of contracts signed before AEG wanted out and Soni was pulled. Do you know for certain that bands of similar size are signing new contracts with Kili?

I don't think it being cancelled will cause to much of an issue with bands or even services - especially as services is surely something sorted out once tickets have been on sale so they'll know if it's going to be a success or not.

Based on the industry norms, you're entirely wrong.

[biffoire]

I agree with Neil entirely. Soni being cancelled will have a knock on affect in all areas and it's not a simple case of 'book Maiden and it will all be ok'

As a freelancer, I am reluctant to work with people after projects get cancelled (no matter how good their intentions are) and I'd imagine a lot of the acts will have this in mind when deciding which festivals to play.

Have the organisers said 2013 is now going ahead?

[eFestivals]

I agree with Neil entirely. Soni being cancelled will have a knock on affect in all areas and it's not a simple case of 'book Maiden and it will all be ok'

while it's certainly not a case of that, if they do manage to book Maiden I suspect they won't have too much difficulty pulling things together.

Mind you, I really can't grasp quite why, I don't understand the enduring appeal of Maiden. I'd got bored of their very limited style by the 2nd album with Bruce.

[jump]

IMO the only way Soni can go ahead next year is if the line is seriously strong and they announce before Download, another weak/average line up won't overcome this year and if they wait too long people will think Soni is gone for good and I don't think even Maiden will be enough based on how poorly they were received last time.

[biffoire]

while it's certainly not a case of that, if they do manage to book Maiden I suspect they won't have too much difficulty pulling things together.

[Justiceforcedave]

I'm thinking maybe

Maiden, Pantera (Dimebag Darrell Hologram), an Adam Lambert public execution topped of by Sunday night, Metallica (Performing thrash metal covers of the complete works of the beatles wearing KISS makeup).