2013/ the future of soni?

[Black_Crow]

I love soni. I hate fan boys.

[Black_Crow]

Also, Neil is echoing exactly what I've been saying about Sonis damaged reputation. How is it he's not 'slamming' sonisphere. :S

[biffoire]

Of course. You must hate yourself then.

[eFestivals]

I know Galbraith bought out AEG's stake in Kili and now has sole ownership

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Someone acquired AEG's stake, but from what I read I'm far from sure it was Galbraith personally (tho it might be I suppose).

If Galbraith had the sort of money they've put in then he wouldn't have needed them in the first place.

Mind you, what AEG put in and what they got back might be miles apart.

It just means he won't have the financial backing, but then again we don't know how much money Kili/Galbraith/Jackson and a number of others actually have.

not enough to run Soni this year, given that I believe that Galbraith was 100% against pulling it.

AEG do own Rockness you're right, but does Galbraith and co have a stake in it, as I've heard they've bought in to a number of different festivals.

Galbraith bought into Wakestock, Bloodstock, and (the now dead) Big Green Gathering. I've never ever read anything about him buying into Rockness, I have only ever read that AEG bought it. Everything about Rockness says AEG and nothing of Galbraith or Kili.

The break even point for festivals is just under half their full capacity, as far as I'm aware

PMSL.

You need to ask yourself how come the old Mean Fiddler never made a profit on Reading.

Download is also damged goods

100% bullshit.

The complaints this year from people who went is over-whelming, many of which claim they want Sonisphere back.

the complaints are nothing compared to the complaints elsewhere from other big fests in muddy years (where punters tend to have unrealistic expectations of what can be done), yet they're still going strong.

Edited June 20, 2012 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Neil is raising valid points, the problem is he isn't looking at both sides of the coin.

I'm looking at all angles in a far more relevant way than you're managing yourself, that much is certain.

[biffoire]

the problem is he isn't looking at both sides of the coin.

[jump]

Whats the other side of the coin?

[AcademicPistol]

Biffoire joins in another conversation where he slams Sonisphere, but then eventually back-tracks claiming he likes Sonisphere and then saying in another part of the forum that he wants Sonispere to fail so Download has a bigger share of the pot.

I thought I'd beat you to your inevitable postings.

[biffoire]

You have been rumbled biff

[Black_Crow]

Well we will see next year then Biff, if Soni struggles or doesn't go ahead then I will apologise to you.

[eFestivals]

I don;t think it's a secret. I can;t help it though. When someone says "Kiss and Queen, they're awesome headliners" or "Sonisphere being cancelled will in no way affect it's reputation" I have to tell them exactly how wrong they are.

and likewise, I said with those headliners it was likely to see Soni cancelled off the back of it.

(OK, I did say slightly differently to what that suggests. I thought this year would be such a flop it wouldn't gto ahead next year. Even I didn't think it would get pulled this year).

The Soni fan boys laughed in my face and said I knew nothing. It turned out it was those Soni fan boys who knew nothing.

Guess who it is who is trying to tell me now I know nothing, when I'm saying that the damage to Soni in the UK from what happened this year is massive, and will impact on it heavily in the future (if it even has a future).

As with every festival, I want - need, even - it to succeed. But that's not going to stop me saying it how I see it.

[AcademicPistol]

I don;t think it's a secret. I can;t help it though. When someone says "Kiss and Queen, they're awesome headliners" or "Sonisphere being cancelled will in no way affect it's reputation" I have to tell them exactly how wrong they are.

Edited June 20, 2012 by AcademicPistol

[Black_Crow]

the complaints are nothing compared to the complaints elsewhere from other big fests in muddy years (where punters tend to have unrealistic expectations of what can be done), yet they're still going strong.

[eFestivals]

Well we will see next year then Biff, if Soni struggles or doesn't go ahead then I will apologise to you.

the thing is, tyhe likes of you and me might well be blissfully unaware of what struggles Soni is going thru if it manages to pull something together for next year.

It's not like Galbraith would be (say) publicising that bands are trying their hardest not to sign a contract with Soni, or that (say) he's having to pay them twice their normal fee to get them to sign up.

As I see it, the worst problem he's going to have is that bands won't want to be quick to sign up to Soni, instead they'll be waiting and hoping for an offer from Download - and they'll only sign sign for Soni if they don't get that hoped-for Download offer, or only if he's promising a much bigger fee than they normally get (tho that won't convince everyone. Twice of nothing [if it's pulled again] equals nothing).

That's going to mean a later than wanted announcement by Soni for next year in all likelihood - which then ramps up even more problems.

[eFestivals]

By that you mean the festival which isn't the same festival anymore and is simply a walking advertisement that would sell out even if The Wurzels headlined and is nothing more than a toffs paradise.

by that you've got to prove you know fuck all and everything you say should be completely ignored on the basis of your massive ignorance.

[AcademicPistol]

As with every festival, I want - need, even - it to succeed. But that's not going to stop me saying it how I see it.

[Black_Crow]

Guess who it is who is trying to tell me now I know nothing, when I'm saying that the damage to Soni in the UK from what happened this year is massive, and will impact on it heavily in the future (if it even has a future).

[zahidf]

Did none of the bands get paid for Sonisphere this year that got pulled then? I assumed they had something in the contract with regards payments of a cancellation fee. Someone like Faith No more playing the european ones for example would've got something i imagine

[eFestivals]

Did none of the bands get paid for Sonisphere this year that got pulled then? I assumed they had something in the contract with regards payments of a cancellation fee. Someone like Faith No more playing the european ones for example would've got something i imagine

It depends I guess on how exactly the contracts were written, but on any normal basis they wouldn't have got paid.

The normal basis is half the fee one month before as a deposit (which is why so many fests get pulled a day or so before one-month-to-go) and then the other half paid after the show.

[Black_Crow]

As I see it, the worst problem he's going to have is that bands won't want to be quick to sign up to Soni, instead they'll be waiting and hoping for an offer from Download - and they'll only sign sign for Soni if they don't get that hoped-for Download offer, or only if he's promising a much bigger fee than they normally get (tho that won't convince everyone. Twice of nothing [if it's pulled again] equals nothing).

That's going to mean a later than wanted announcement by Soni for next year in all likelihood - which then ramps up even more problems.

[eFestivals]

oh, forgot to follow that by saying....

For next year tho, it might well be the case that 'normal basis' doesn't apply. For any promoter where the act or agent has doubts about their ability to pull it off, they might ask for all the fee to be paid up-front at the time of booking.

Given that any headline bands that Soni books for the UK will be most likely ruling themselves out of any other UK festival shows that year, it's quite possible they'll be asking for their fee all up-front.

[Black_Crow]

by that you've got to prove you know fuck all and everything you say should be completely ignored on the basis of your massive ignorance.

[AcademicPistol]

Plenty of festivals have taken gap years inc. your beloved Glastonbury, Reading and Monsters of Rock. It doesn't mean anything at this stage as we are still in festival season.

[Black_Crow]

Don't know how times this has been covered but here it goes again.

Taking a gap year is one thing. Announcing a line-up that didn't shift tickets and spectacularly flopped is very different.

[eFestivals]

You mean bands that are already promoted by Kili and have still done tours with them despite Knebworth being cancelled and bands already playing at Kili ran festivals.

being able to run a tour means nothing in regard to whether Kili are able to make Soni happen next year.

There's zero cross-over between those two things in all business senses. There's a little cross-over with the relationship they might have with Galbraith as promoter.

Oh yeah those bands and that's without going in to bands like Mastodon who won't touch Download at all possibly due to their booker branding bands twats for not signing up with them and going elsewhere.

The cancellation of Soni got to prove that booker's words as accurate.

For all you know Soni may announce earlier this year due to the mistakes last year, not to mention having more time and less stress to do so,

I've no doubts that Soni will want to announce far earlier for next year, if it's going to go ahead.

But whether they can is not within their control, unless they desperately sign up the first bands that are prepared to commit - which would be likely to see them end up with sub-standard headliners over what they might otherwise get by waiting, which of course takes things back to a similar sort of situation to what they had this year (cos an earlier announcement would have made little difference for Soni this year).