Anyone considering stewarding?

[lizziecapelin]

If anyone's considering stewarding please can you let me know, I can't go anymore and they said I can't get my £50 deposit back but if anyone else who wants it they can take my place. I'll give you £10 off. THANKS!

[eFestivals]

Surely the deposit was a deposit against you being given a ticket but then not doing the work that was linked to that ticket?

If they've not yet sent you the ticket then they should refund you the deposit you've paid. To do anything else would be them abusing their position.

[perfectpassion]

Sorry I meant to ask, it would be helpful if you said which festival this is for Lizzie? Good luck with finding someone to replace you

Talking of tickets

I see from fb that the people who bought joint tkts for both festivals (NDH & EoTR) have got their tickets today....FOR BOTH FESTIVALS. Is this true?

So where is my EoTR ticket then?

Edited May 9, 2012 by perfectpassion

[Completewasters]

Surely the deposit was a deposit against you being given a ticket but then not doing the work that was linked to that ticket?

If they've not yet sent you the ticket then they should refund you the deposit you've paid. To do anything else would be them abusing their position.

[eFestivals]

Reading the info prior to the application it looks like the deposit in this instance is as much to defend against people dropping out as it is about people getting on site but not completing shifts.

http://www.endoftheroadfestival.com/information/volunteering-and-stewarding/

Hmmmm. That seems very wrong to me.

[Completewasters]

Hmmmm. That seems very wrong to me.

[eFestivals]

Are you suggesting something sinister? because of how paypal works they will probably lose money on taking deposits, perhaps keeping the whole £50 is a bit much and charging a £10 admin fee (as lizzie effectively appears prepared to pay) would be more sensible. but i am sure they could argue they are simply incentivising her to find a replacement.

Not 'sinister', no - just morally wrong IMO.

It's not a purchase this person has made, they've taken up an offer of employment. Refunds on misplaced purchases are not the norm, but withdrawing from an offer of employment and being financially penalised for doing so is very much against the norm.

There's laws that prohibit having to pay agencies up-front for employment, and while this scenario might fall outside the specifics of those laws (because it's something a little different to the more normal employment) I'd say that the general principle should still apply (I'd have no problem with a small deduction for admin costs).

I realise that it's an inconvenience for the employer that they've lost one of their recruits, but that's life - being an employer is all about taking on risks. There should be no risk for the person who might take up that employment.

(I'm not arguing against the idea of a deposit against the ticket cost for those who will be working BTW, just to make that clear.)

[Completewasters]

Not 'sinister', no - just morally wrong IMO.

It's not a purchase this person has made, they've taken up an offer of employment. Refunds on misplaced purchases are not the norm, but withdrawing from an offer of employment and being financially penalised for doing so is very much against the norm.

There's laws that prohibit having to pay agencies up-front for employment, and while this scenario might fall outside the specifics of those laws (because it's something a little different to the more normal employment) I'd say that the general principle should still apply (I'd have no problem with a small deduction for admin costs).

I realise that it's an inconvenience for the employer that they've lost one of their recruits, but that's life - being an employer is all about taking on risks. There should be no risk for the person who might take up that employment.

(I'm not arguing against the idea of a deposit against the ticket cost for those who will be working BTW, just to make that clear.)

[eFestivals]

(i think i will perhaps inelegantly withdraw from a discussion I probably shouldnt have got involved in )

I'm pleased that you did. It allowed me to lay out what I was thinking in a much more coherent way, hopefully one where people can understand why I feel it's wrong that the deposit isn't refunded.

[marooned]

This will be my 3rd (or is it 4th) EOTR Steward year. Two years ago it was semi-chaotic when so many 'student-types' gave it the swerve, so, it was no surprise when they instigated the deposit system last year.

This ensures that the Steward (a) TURNS UP and ( COMPLETES THEIR ROTA before that welcome cash return.

However, this withdrawal is so far in advance of the event itself, I can't see the problem in giving back the Deposit. I note that they have already dropped the deposit for the sister Festival NDH - so, who knows what's going on.

Sitting squarely on the fence, it's YES to the Deposit System and YES, in this case, to re-imbursement......

Edited May 10, 2012 by marooned

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I would expect the deposit to be refunded as there is ample notice of non attendance. I posted some time ago that I was successful in a County Court claim against an organisation that did not refund my deposit when I could not attend at short notice. Even though it was in the terms and conditions the judge ruled in my favour as I did not receive entry and also it costs an organisation nothing to replace a volunteer.

[Completewasters]

I would expect the deposit to be refunded as there is ample notice of non attendance. I posted some time ago that I was successful in a County Court claim against an organisation that did not refund my deposit when I could not attend at short notice. Even though it was in the terms and conditions the judge ruled in my favour as I did not receive entry and also it costs an organisation nothing to replace a volunteer.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Well this will draw me back in (please note we are not directly involved in this situation and we would have worked on the basis of some kind of admin fee)

Can you direct me to this post.

As someone who relies on volunteers I find it very difficult to accept the italicised statement in the context in which you have written it.

[Completewasters]

The post was some time ago but I do not know how you cannot accept the statement. A judge ruled it was wrong for an organisation to keep my deposit due to not attending the event to work (I had given a weeks notice). I had no problem with an admin fee been taken but this was taking the piss. He also stated that the work was not voluntary as I received entry as payment in kind (which I declare anyway on my tax return). As I was given no ticket if said there where no grounds to keep the deposit. The organisation tried to argue along the lines of if I had bought A ticket I would not get a refund or if it was a holiday I would lose the cash, as well as the cost of replacing me. All that was thrown out. He did say that if someone takes a job and then changes their mind they are not libel to cover the costs of recruitment. In their defence they did say they would refund if I had good reason such as illness or a death in the family, but that backfired on then. There was the issue as to who got the cash as well as it was a stewarding company and the judge could not understand how they got to keep the cash without passing it on.

[marooned]

Rufus - only ONE WEEK'S NOTICE ?!?! To be honest, I'd have refunded nowt in that instance and you were extremely lucky. Months out is OK (in my

view)- days out is takin' the p*ss out of the Steward Organisers.........they've then got to find a willing stand-in AND re-schedule 3/4/5 days rotas.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Sorry if I wasnt clear all I was disputing was the statement 'it costs an organisation nothing to replace a volunteer.' (did the judge say this?)

I would argue that it does cost an organisation to replace a volunteer either it means having to use paid staff to replace a volunteer or by other staff and voluteers having to work harder to cover the missing volunteer. I am not arguing you shouldnt have received your deposit back (or at least the vast majority of it). By accepting that you would be prepared to pay an admin fee suggests you do accept there would be a cost involved.

In the circumstances you site it would likely not be possible to replace you with another volunteer, on the otherhand I appreciate efestivals point that 'that's life' and people recruiting volunteers, or in other walks of life paid employees, have to accept it.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Sorry if I wasnt clear all I was disputing was the statement 'it costs an organisation nothing to replace a volunteer.' (did the judge say this?)

I would argue that it does cost an organisation to replace a volunteer either it means having to use paid staff to replace a volunteer or by other staff and voluteers having to work harder to cover the missing volunteer. I am not arguing you shouldnt have received your deposit back (or at least the vast majority of it). By accepting that you would be prepared to pay an admin fee suggests you do accept there would be a cost involved.

In the circumstances you site it would likely not be possible to replace you with another volunteer, on the otherhand I appreciate efestivals point that 'that's life' and people recruiting volunteers, or in other walks of life paid employees, have to accept it.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Rufus Gwertigan

[marooned]

Well I think it's a matter of respect....but hey!!!

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Well I think it's a matter of respect....but hey!!!

[marooned]

225quid makes it a totally different matter - what Festival was asking for that.....

[perfectpassion]

So assuming that this is about EoTR, I can see why they ask for deposits, thanks Marooned for that info. And yep it makes total sense. Also efestivals has a valid point. The problem for Lizzie now is that in previous years stewarding places were highly sought after, and could easily be swapped. Its probably a bit early still so I do hope that someone wants your place.

[lizziecapelin]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies.

My problem with the situation is it doesn't seem to make any difference whether EOTR refunds me and someone else takes my spot OR if I find someone else to take my spot and this person pays me.

They say that stewarding positions are full every year so think it would have been nice of them to just refund me and take the spot back, since I have been to EOTR (fully paid) for about 4 years in a row and I did give them over 3 months notice but oh well, Green Man it is for me next year.

Please lemme know if you hear anyone who wants my spot!