WORST BANDS YOU'VE EVER SEEN

[festivalfollower123]

interestingly I think it was Stalin's first son who was actually killed in a concentration camp

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

Angels and Airwaves (Reading 2007) by a million miles

[rug568]

interestingly I think it was Stalin's first son who was actually killed in a concentration camp

[Avens]

Undoubtedly "the" RHCP set in 2007. Bloody shocking, that was.

[festivalfollower123]

Yes his son was capture by the Germans in 1941 and was disowned by Stalin for the fact he allowed himself to be captured. There is some debate over his death, but the most likely is that he was killed by a guard in his prison camp.

The issue with Stalin over Hitler is that Stalin did not have death camps for the specific purpose of killing people, like Hitler did. Stalin killed a lot of people, either through the various famines due to collectivisation or through the Great Purges when he sent millions to work to death in East Russia. He did execute around 700,000 civilians, however these were largely people being shot on a local level, rather than the industrialised killing by Hitler.

Hitler, unlike Stalin, target a specific group of people and was highly efficient at killing them, 90% of Polish Jews died during the Second World War. Stalin was extremely paranoid and basically killed anybody that might oppose him.

Stalin was anti-semitic, but only really when it suited him, mainly due to Trotsky. I think Hitler's disdain of the Jews was evolved out of the fact that they were very easy to blame for the crisis Germany experienced after WWI, and he was able to unite the public against them for his benefit. Quite like how the Communists united the working classes against the Bourgeoisie for their own benefit. I think this hatred then spiralled out of control, with his subordinates attempting to impress him by showing their superior hatred of the Jews by coming up with more ways to kill them, eventually resulting in the gas chambers.

[kaosmark2]

Personally, I think that Stalin's terror was due to his paranoia. In 1924, Lenin died causing a power vacuum at the head of the Bolshevik/Communist party, causing a struggle for power between Stalin, Trotsky, Bukharin, Zinoviev, Kamenev... and when Stalin became leader of Russia he realised that several leading Communist party members had lost power and didn't want others to have potential to make him lose power. That led to the Moscow show trials and such so that no one would oppose Stalin. On the topic of Hitler being more principled, I would argue that Hitler's opinions on the Jewish community were caused majorly by things that happened in his life so he gained a negative perception of the Jewish community. Other things also had an obvious effect on that but Hitler's killings were more like going to war in my opinion as he felt a separation between people who were jewish and himself (disgustingly and racistly so may i add) just as going to war hitler felt only loyalty to people who he was a part of so who he considered to be German but on a whole they're both probably the two worst people to have lived.

[festivalfollower123]

Interesting argument. I've not really got much to add, but interesting nevertheless.

I'm going to challenge the last one though. In terms of scale of killings caused, indubitably, but what defines worst people? Effect on the world, intention, motivation, principles?

I mean, historically people have been brought up that war is righteous, with a sense of patriotism, jingoism, us vs them, etc. As you said, Hitler's outlook was affected by his personal experiences with the Jewish community, but you can provide such reasons/explanations/excuses for most behaviour. There's probably people with more selfish, hate-filled raw intent, but less effect.

Again, what defines worst?

[The Mean Bean]

Efestivals; where a discussion of poor live shows leads into a discussion of who's more evil, Hitler or Stalin?

Now all the Hitler and Stalin fanboys are going to show up and start arguing.

[kaosmark2]

yet again interesting, it may be argued that a person with the intent to simply have an impact that did so by means which would result in the deaths of a number of people is better or worse than someone who does not act upon their wishes which are more intense than the person who didn't believe in the things which they were doing. However,in other cultures it may also be seen that cultural norms for our society are completely different to in their society and who would we be to say they were wrong to have such beliefs or they themselves to say we were wrong for holding such beliefs. Personally I feel that the monumental scale of devestation caused by either Stalin or Hitler can help me to see them as appalling people. In the same way, Stalin may actually be said by some to have been trying to follow the teachings of Marxism in which it says that following the revolution of the proletariat, dictatorship is required. Stalin may not have wished to act out certain things which he did to quite the effect that he did and may have wished to set up a totalitarian dictatorship as that was his interpretation of the requirements of Marxism. However, I would not see this as Stalin's actual reasons for the terror which he created but I wouldn't know.

[jazz565]

The Kooks. Singer was a w*nker, never sung through the mic and filled with 13 year old girls being held by their 15 year old boyfriend who got dragged along. Like me . (my girlfriend was my age just to say)

Edited May 18, 2012 by jazz565

[kaosmark2]

Efestivals; where a discussion of poor live shows leads into a discussion of who's more evil, Hitler or Stalin?

Now all the Hitler and Stalin fanboys are going to show up and start arguing.

[Gingetastico]

The Offspring Reading 2011. NEVER seen a band look less interested.

When I saw them at Brixton in 2009 they were good though. sigh.

[pablopablo]

If we're talking evil dictators then Mao was responsible for far more deaths than either Stalin or Hitler.

Oh, and Scouting For Girls 2008.

[MAD HARRY 27]

Efestivals; where a discussion of poor live shows leads into a discussion of who's more evil, Hitler or Stalin?

[Andre91]

Idi Amin? Dictators aside, Josef Mengele was pretty despicable. And there's serial killers too; Richard Trenton Chase and Jeffrey Dahmer were both properly f**ked up. There's also Andrei Chikatilo and Albert Fish.

[Gucci Piggy]

When the true question is Jared Leto or Anthony Kiedis.

[jonodillieono]

The Big Pink supporting Muse in 2009

Absolutely fucking dire, they had a strong strobe light going through the entire set and I thought I was blind by the end of it

[Vieuphoria]

does he? I always though he came across like a cock...

[kaosmark2]

This is just ludicrous. It has gone from Jared Leto being a c**t therefore making for a poor performance, to the amount of people Stalin has killed and in what way he did it.

Why do we ALWAYS go off on tangents?!

[Gucci Piggy]

does he? I always though he came across like a cock...

[kaosmark2]

I dunno, I always thought he seemed alright in interviews and stuff. And he does charity work if I remember correctly. But I don't know too much about him so I may be completely wrong haha

[Vieuphoria]

I dunno, I always thought he seemed alright in interviews and stuff. And he does charity work if I remember correctly. But I don't know too much about him so I may be completely wrong haha

[Gucci Piggy]

Ahh fair enough then

Edited May 19, 2012 by Will-2609

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triple post

Edited May 19, 2012 by jump

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triple post

Edited May 19, 2012 by jump