Football 2012-2013

[strummer77]

Didnt see the game, damn gig clashes.

Seen the main incidents though, of course it was a red as nanis foot was dangerously high and not in control.

Cant comment who should of won though, amazing how suarez has been included in the discussion already

I expected it to be at least lunchtime.

Edited March 6, 2013 by strummer77

[Jaybles]

Blikers PMSL

That might not be a red from every ref, but plenty would give it. As Keane said, did Nani give the ref the opportunity to send him off? Yes he did. So it's a justified red.

[TheGayTent]

I've not seen it, was out for a run, is it similar to the incident Carlton Cole got sent off for against Liverpool? The one that was rescinded?

[eFestivals]

Rubbish. Keane is just being controversial for TV.

Keane. And Southgate. And Dixon. They all said it was a red just to be controversial.

Nani did what hundreds of players do every weekend. Raised his foot with his eye on the ball looking to control it.

He had full control over his foot, he had no idea that Arbeloa was approaching.

dangerous play is dangerous play, and is a red. Them's the rules.

Intent is no part of it.

He got to the ball with a fair challenge but to claim that was anything other than a foul by Nani is ridiculous.

who's claiming it wasn't a foul?

Not only was it a foul, it was a bad foul. While it might not be a red from every ref, plenty of refs would give a red for that.

And that's before getting onto the kick that Nani gave the other guy at the end of the incident.

No intent, No malice and purely accidental.

says you.

What about Nani kicking the other guy at the end of it? There was (in theory) no need for that part if there was no malice - so there might well have been malice.

That's at very worse a yellow.

That's not what the rules say!!

No Madrid player hounding the referee, no one anywhere near the referee.

Did the other game have a sending off too? I reckon you watched the wrong one by mistake.

[eFestivals]

I've not seen it, was out for a run, is it similar to the incident Carlton Cole got sent off for against Liverpool? The one that was rescinded?

was that the recent game where two players got reds for high feet, and they were rescinded?

It wasn't hugely dissimilar, tho only a fool would say this one wasn't more dangerous than those two.

This one also had an added kick at the end of it, which may have been a consequence of everything else, but might also have been deliberate. I don't think there's many refs who wouldn't have given a red if they saw the kick part of it (whether that was seen would depend on the ref/linesman angles at the time, but it's clear in one of the TV angles).

It's not an always-red incident in my eyes, but it's something that would get a red plenty of times in England, and many more with a European ref.

[the_hedge]

Yellow card at most, even the Real players didn't react and they react at anything.

Spoiled the game and yet again an English team don't get the benefit of the doubt in Europe.

I know most wont agree with this but I have never trusted ref's against English teams since the Chelsea vs Barca 2nd leg a few years ago. Probably the most blatant cheating by an official I have ever seen.

[Jaybles]

Keane. And Southgate. And Dixon. They all said it was a red just to be controversial. :lol:dangerous play is dangerous play, and is a red. Them's the rules.

Intent is no part of it.who's claiming it wasn't a foul?

Not only was it a foul, it was a bad foul. While it might not be a red from every ref, plenty of refs would give a red for that.

And that's before getting onto the kick that Nani gave the other guy at the end of the incident.says you.

What about Nani kicking the other guy at the end of it? There was (in theory) no need for that part if there was no malice - so there might well have been malice.That's not what the rules say!!Did the other game have a sending off too? I reckon you watched the wrong one by mistake.

[5co77ie]

No other option than a red card - otherwise hundreds of thousands of kids across Europe would have been 'doing a Nani' in playgrounds this morning, and it would be all over YouTube. This is football on one of the most watched stages, dangerous play is always going to be dangerous play - regardless of whether he saw the player or extended a kick or not.

*I always get sent off on ProEvo for high kicks and never do them deliberately either*

[eFestivals]

Dixon didnt say it was a red.

he said he felt it was a yellow but understood why a ref might give it a red.

Also to say Nani kicked out is ridiculous. He was spinning in the air after being clipped by Arbeloa, hard to control yourself in that situation.

It's the absolute truth to say he kicked out. His leg was bent at more than a right-angle during the collision, but was extended to nearly straight by the time his foot left the player. He kicked the other guy away with his foot.

I'm far from convinced it was deliberate, but there's a more than reasonable possibility that it might have been deliberate.

Nani had no idea Arbeloa was there, so I fail to see it as dangerous play.

then you fail to abide by the rules, simple as that.

Nothing of dangerous play is about intent.

His eyes were squarely on the ball and I can find examples in any game of football of a player raising their leg to control a high ball.

controlling a high ball is allowed. To cause danger to another player whilst doing that is not.

If Arbeloa decided to go for the ball then the decision is on him. He got the ball, so fair play to him but anything more than a foul is poor refereeing.

or red blinkers.

Very experienced ex-pros thought it a fair red or reasonable red. Only those with blinkers insist it was completely unjustified.

[5co77ie]

I fail to see it as dangerous play

[Essex_George]

If Arbeloa decided to go for the ball then the decision is on him. He got the ball, so fair play to him but anything more than a foul is poor refereeing.

[Jaybles]

very experienced ex-pros thought it was a shocking red, and a terrible decision.

If you are allowed to control a high ball then what Nani did was allowed. It was Arbeloa's decision to challenge for the ball. Nani had no idea he was being challenged for the ball till it was too late.

Arbeloa's booking on Evra was worse in my opinion. He missed the ball and tried to stop Evra by deliberately kicking him in the thigh.

[eFestivals]

very experienced ex-pros thought it was a shocking red, and a terrible decision.

If you are allowed to control a high ball then what Nani did was allowed. It was Arbeloa's decision to challenge for the ball. Nani had no idea he was being challenged for the ball till it was too late.

PMSL

Never has the north east sold so many blinkers.

[pink_triangle]

Rubbish. Keane is just being controversial for TV.

Nani did what hundreds of players do every weekend. Raised his foot with his eye on the ball looking to control it.

He had full control over his foot, he had no idea that Arbeloa was approaching. He watches the ball pretty much on to the foot and then Nani is the one who is challenged. If the madrid player was not there, everyone would applaud Nani for controlling the ball out of the air.

As it happens Arbeloa decided to challenge for the ball (He is the player who could see what Nani was attempting). He got to the ball with a fair challenge but to claim that was anything other than a foul by Nani is ridiculous.

No intent, No malice and purely accidental. That's at very worse a yellow. Look at the people on the pitch for their reaction. No Madrid player hounding the referee, no one anywhere near the referee. No one was asking for or expected a red. It was a poor decision from a referee looking for the spotlight.

[Jaybles]

So Arbeloa isn't allowed to challenge for the ball because Nani has his leg high??

What if Arbeloa had gone in with his head and Nani kicked him in the face? There wouldn't even be any argument.

[Jaybles]

PMSL

Never has the north east sold so many blinkers.

[TheGayTent]

It would be interesting to find out what rule the referee sent him off for...

If a player plays in a dangerous manner in a normal challenge, the referee should not take any disciplinary action.

If the action is made with obvious risk of injury the referee should caution the player.

If a player denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity playing in a dangerous manner the referee should send off the player.

It's quite clear to me, if the referee has sent him off for dangerous play the decision is an incorrect one.

If he's been sent off for violent conduct or serious foul play that opens up a new can of worms...

[TheGayTent]

Looks to me as though he must have been sent off for a reckless challenge - that he has acted with complete disregard of the danger to his opponent AND has far exceeded the necessary use of force.

Only if he fulfils those criteria should he be sent off. Having still not seen the incident I can't comment.

Perhaps those that have, can give their opinion based on the above requirements for a red card against Nani's actions?

[TheGayTent]

What if Arbeloa had gone in with his head and Nani kicked him in the face? There wouldn't even be any argument.

[The Nal]

Eye on the ball the whole time. This doesn't show Nani looking over his shoulder just before and not seeing Arbeloa, as Arbeloa's run came from behind Nani and was angled.

Its a yellow card at best. If its a red, theres no more volleys or bicycle/overhead kicks in football anymore.

Theres no intent. He didn't know the player was even there.

Edited March 6, 2013 by The Nal

[the_hedge]

Surely the referee wouldnt have disallowed a real madrid goal if there was an anti english team agenda.

[eFestivals]

Do the rules for dangerous play specify intent? I have to admit that I am unsure on this point.

the rules don't require intent - Chiles read out the rules regarding dangerous play at the end of the match.

[TheGayTent]

Thanks Nal.

Never a red.

Keane called it wrong and Moyes called it right IMO.

Ref has to make a split second decision from the one angle he gets, but he makes a duff one in my eyes.

It's a foul. It's careless possibly, but it's not reckless or using excessive force. Not a red.

[TheGayTent]

the rules don't require intent - Chiles read out the rules regarding dangerous play at the end of the match.

[eFestivals]

It's quite clear to me, if the referee has sent him off for dangerous play the decision is an incorrect one.

then you need to refer to the rule book too.

Chiles read out the specific rules. The ref certainly didn't get it wrong in regard to the rules.

The ref might have got it wrong by believing it to be more dangerous than it really was, but that's a subjective decision and one that's also swayed by the particular view he had of the incident.

But in regard to the rules themselves, the ref didn't get it wrong.