Football 2012-2013

[eFestivals]

Haha ok. If you say so. I wonder how my view of Arsenal being a good side that have failed to win a trophy in almost a decade is blinkered

that part isn't. It's where you then go on to call them a "failure".

Are (say) Everton a failure? Are Spurs a failure (cos if they're lucky they might win one trophy each decade)? Are Villa a failure? Etc, etc, etc.

Only the best team is about-guaranteed to win something. For everyone else it's ultimately about just the taking part. Sure, they'd like to win, they hope to win. But for them to win is going to take luck - because they're not the best teams.

Arsenal not winning anything makes them no less a failure than Accrington Stanley. They're both going to perform at around the level they're at.

But are you going to say teams like Barcelona are lucky to keep winning.

Nope, cos they'ree about the best team, just like Utd.

But to expose your double standards, are you going to call Utd just as much of a failure as Arsenal because Utd aren't winning the Chumps every year?

Of course you're not, because you know that Utd winning the Chumps each year is a stupid unrealistic expectation which they've got no chance of doing because there's more than enough other better teams to stop that happening. It doesn't make UItd a straight failure as you're labelling Arsenal.

Blinkered reds like you love to call people like me an abu if I dare to be critical about Utd - and yet I wouldn't dream of calling Utd a failure, despite them having no less a basis to be called a failure as you're using against Arsenal, because of Utd's many failures to win stuff each and ever season. That's how stupidly extreme your comments are!!

I know a few big Arsenal fans and they all say Arsenal failing to win a trophy for 8 years is very disappointing.

Disappointing, perhaps - tho what is disappointing is measured against an expectation, and their expectations have been unrealistic given the limitations onto the playing side of things in recent years.

That's only disappointment tho, that's not failure. Failure is when you don't achieve what you're capable of doing - and as I keep pointing out, any capability for Arsenal to win stuff ultimately comes down to only luck because they're not the best team.

You ask Arsene if he is happy that he has not had a trophy for years.

wanting to win is a different thing yet again.

By the high standards they set themselves, they have been a failure.

what you really mean is that against what they've achieved in the past, they've not achieved to the same level again.

Same applies no less to Utd, for their mostly failures to win the Chumps. But oh, you say they can't be expected to win the Chumps every year.

Which funnily enough is absolutely no different to Arsenal in regard to the FA Cup, the League Cup, and the league.

Arsenal have had the quality in their ranks to have won something in the past few seasons,

Only if they get lucky - because there have always been better teams!!

Oh and Utd turn a profit too by the way

what you mean is they fiddle the accounts by valuing the club at far more than it's worth. The recent-ish share issue proved it beyond all doubt, and their cupboard is now empty of tricks apart from the secrecy of Delaware, the last refuge of a fraudster.

It's a standard accounting trick. Every one of Britain's major house builders is in reality bankrupt. Their value is maintained (in connivance with the banks, who can't afford for them to go bust) by falsely valuing the land they own at more than it's really worth. And that's Utd under the Glazers.

Good for you, but If Aldershot were finishing in the top 4 of the premiership every year for the best part of two decades, and competing in the highest level of European football every season I bet your expectations would be a tiny bit higher.....Dare I say you may even be disappointed if you hadn't won anything for 8 years

If Aldershot managed that, while I'd love it I'd know it wasn't sustainable - and so when the slide came my expectations would not be dented. I might be disappointed that they no longer won stuff, but realism would explain why - not failure.

[Jaybles]

that part isn't. It's where you then go on to call them a "failure".

Are (say) Everton a failure? Are Spurs a failure (cos if they're lucky they might win one trophy each decade)? Are Villa a failure? Etc, etc, etc.

Only the best team is about-guaranteed to win something. For everyone else it's ultimately about just the taking part. Sure, they'd like to win, they hope to win. But for them to win is going to take luck - because they're not the best teams.

Arsenal not winning anything makes them no less a failure than Accrington Stanley. They're both going to perform at around the level they're at.Nope, cos they'ree about the best team, just like Utd.

But to expose your double standards, are you going to call Utd just as much of a failure as Arsenal because Utd aren't winning the Chumps every year?

Of course you're not, because you know that Utd winning the Chumps each year is a stupid unrealistic expectation which they've got no chance of doing because there's more than enough other better teams to stop that happening. It doesn't make UItd a straight failure as you're labelling Arsenal.

Blinkered reds like you love to call people like me an abu if I dare to be critical about Utd - and yet I wouldn't dream of calling Utd a failure, despite them having no less a basis to be called a failure as you're using against Arsenal, because of Utd's many failures to win stuff each and ever season. That's how stupidly extreme your comments are!!Disappointing, perhaps - tho what is disappointing is measured against an expectation, and their expectations have been unrealistic given the limitations onto the playing side of things in recent years.

That's only disappointment tho, that's not failure. Failure is when you don't achieve what you're capable of doing - and as I keep pointing out, any capability for Arsenal to win stuff ultimately comes down to only luck because they're not the best team.wanting to win is a different thing yet again.what you really mean is that against what they've achieved in the past, they've not achieved to the same level again.

Same applies no less to Utd, for their mostly failures to win the Chumps. But oh, you say they can't be expected to win the Chumps every year.

Which funnily enough is absolutely no different to Arsenal in regard to the FA Cup, the League Cup, and the league.

Only if they get lucky - because there have always been better teams!!what you mean is they fiddle the accounts by valuing the club at far more than it's worth. The recent-ish share issue proved it beyond all doubt, and their cupboard is now empty of tricks apart from the secrecy of Delaware, the last refuge of a fraudster.

It's a standard accounting trick. Every one of Britain's major house builders is in reality bankrupt. Their value is maintained (in connivance with the banks, who can't afford for them to go bust) by falsely valuing the land they own at more than it's really worth. And that's Utd under the Glazers.If Aldershot managed that, while I'd love it I'd know it wasn't sustainable - and so when the slide came my expectations would not be dented. I might be disappointed that they no longer won stuff, but realism would explain why - not failure.

[eFestivals]

All this comparing Arsenal to Aldershot and Acrington stanley is ridiculous.

Nope, it's not.

Aldershot and Stanley have no chance of winning those cups. Arsenal have a chance because they're closer to the best team, but being closer guarantees nothing. Even being the best guarantees nothing.

Edited March 15, 2013 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

Surprise surprise - Rafa full of shit.

Anyone who watched the game saw this too. But a lot of people taking Rafa at his word! And now he looks like a total clown.

[eFestivals]

Surprise surprise - Rafa full of shit.

Anyone who watched the game saw this too. But a lot of people taking Rafa at his word! And now he looks like a total clown.

Who looks like a clown? One has the better comedy nose.

In all seriousness, taking what fergie says about signing autographs as true (I don't know either way), would he not normally seek out the opposing manager?

[The Nal]

Who looks like a clown? One has the better comedy nose.

In all seriousness, taking what fergie says about signing autographs as true (I don't know either way), would he not normally seek out the opposing manager?

[eFestivals]

Nah not really. Rafa was already sitting down by the time Fergie was finished. Theres no format for it. Rafa was last out and if he wanted a handshake he should've walked over and shook his hand.

yeah, but what i'm asking is whether what fergie did was the fergie norm, or not?

I know he often signs autographs, but if I'm not mistaken it also includes him seeking out the other manager to some extent.

Anyway, its obviously just some sort of an attempt at mind games for the replay. What hes hoping to achieve only he knows.

Hmmmm, who's mind games?

For all you know they might be fergie's, where he did deliberately snub Rafa but where he already had that excuse in place. And of course, he'd know that Rafa would take the bait (cos Rafa does), and that it would enable fergie to make Rafa look stupid - at least, in the eyes of those who work off (just) fergie's words - by rubbishing it as he just has.

It's not like fergie is unknown for this sort of thing, and I doubt there's any manager he'd want to set-up as much as Rafa.

Might have happened!

[kaosmark2]

3 English sides through to the europa league, they normally struggle to get 1. Particulaly happy to see newcastle and spurs, although the latter should be worried having lost 2 games in a row. I think spurs really miss Sandro, if Arsenal (with no distractions) put spurs under pressure, I can see the choking. Cant get excited about chelsea getting though, although it would be hialrious if fixture congestion cost them a champions league place. Looking at the teams left in the competition, my worrying feeling about them winning the trophy remains.

[The Nal]

yeah, but what i'm asking is whether what fergie did was the fergie norm, or not?

I know he often signs autographs, but if I'm not mistaken it also includes him seeking out the other manager to some extent.Hmmmm, who's mind games?

For all you know they might be fergie's, where he did deliberately snub Rafa but where he already had that excuse in place. And of course, he'd know that Rafa would take the bait (cos Rafa does), and that it would enable fergie to make Rafa look stupid - at least, in the eyes of those who work off (just) fergie's words - by rubbishing it as he just has.

It's not like fergie is unknown for this sort of thing, and I doubt there's any manager he'd want to set-up as much as Rafa.

Might have happened!

[pink_triangle]

Are we talking football or semantics?

No where have I said Arsenal as a club are a failure. I have even praised Arsenal throughout this discussion. They have done extremely well to compete at the highest level, consistently, for so long. However.....they have failed to win a major trophy in 8 years.

All this comparing Arsenal to Aldershot and Acrington stanley is ridiculous. Tottenham and Everton are not competing at the same level (Tottenham are getting there though). If they had been finishing in the top 4 for 16 years and had some of the best teams/players to grace the league then you can compare them. At the start of every season Arsenal are attempting to win a trophy. I know the odds are against them due to finances but they have finished in the top 4 for 16 years. That is 16 years fighting for the league, the champions league and being one of the favorites in the domestic cups. The first 8 of those years produced trophy after trophy, but nothing since.

Luck may not have been on their side but playing at that level they are aiming to win a trophy, that is their end goal. Their failure to do so is reflected by the media and more importantly the fans who are growing increasingly frustrated. Also you only have to look at Arsene to see he is not happy finishing another year trophyless. Realistic expectations? Maybe not, but as long as they continue to compete at the level they do, each further year without a trophy is a failure when you look at their own ambitions.

You have kept bringing in my support for Man Utd in to this for some reason....but yes last year by Utd's standards was a failure. They are better set up to compete for trophies every year i agree, but Arsenal have the ability to beat anyone on their day. They have the capability to win a major trophy

[eFestivals]

They asked Fergie about Rafa before the match and he said "I'm not going to kick a man when hes down". Hes not arsed with Rafa at the moment.

You take everything he says at face value...?

[The Nal]

You take everything he says at face value...?

[eFestivals]

Why would he be? Rafas not a concern apart from the next game. City are his only concern at the moment. Rafa is gone from Chelski in a few weeks anyway.

a game fergie wants to win.

He's never slow to diss just about any managerial opponent, tho it's often by faint praise or the sort of back-handed 'support' of saying something like "I'm not going to kick a man when hes down".

[The Nal]

a game fergie wants to win.

He's never slow to diss just about any managerial opponent, tho it's often by faint praise or the sort of back-handed 'support' of saying something like "I'm not going to kick a man when hes down".

[Essex_George]

Why would he be? Rafas not a concern apart from the next game. City are his only concern at the moment. Rafa is gone from Chelski in a few weeks anyway.

[eFestivals]

Agree usually yeah but not in this case.

do you know that if you put the word 'google' into google, you'll break the internet?

[The Nal]

Rafa clearly gets under Fergie's skin.

Edited March 16, 2013 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

I like the champions league draw, in general the giants have been kept apart but they have still have a tasty juve v bayern match, while dortmund v malaga guarantees a,new name in the semis looking at recent years.

Glad the English sides got separated in the europa. Think spurs have had a pretty kind draw, while Newcastle will probably go out. Chelsea hard to predict, depends how interested they are.

[Essex_George]

Especially when he comes out with nonsense like this handshake cobblers. The "fact" rant was great though. LFC top of the league at the time, Rafa goes off on one for no reason and they immediately have a huge dip in form and Utd win the league. The following year Liverpool finish 7th and Rafa gets sacked.

2nd bizarre rant from Rafa about Fergie and for the 2nd time comes off looking like a total tit. At least when Wenger and Fergie were at each others throats, around the invincibles era, Wenger finished the season with the Premiership half the time in those years so had something to show for it that genuinely pissed off Ferguson. Same for Mourinho. Although that wasn't as bitter.

Some fact rant and a mickey mouse complaint about a non-handshake and Rafa is thinks hes coming across as a rebel.

What a dickhead.

[thetime]

Fergie as we all know hates anyone who stands up to him, Rafa may not of gone about it the right way with his 'fact' rant but at least he is game enough to have a go at the old c@nt. Fergie - what a dickhead!

[The Nal]

I just find rafa rather amusing...

[pink_triangle]

. If he was good they'd keep him.

.

[Wooderson]

Rafa winning the EC put one LFC record out of Baconface's reach. That shit gotsta hurt.

[thetime]

so to make a negative judgement about him not being there next season is a bit strange, as that was clearly never the plan.

[pink_triangle]

di matteo?