T in the Park 2013

[PatsInThePark]

Problem being, tickets, on the face of it don't seem to be shifting that well. Used to be a scramble to get tickets but nowadays a sloth with a credit card could get without problem. It is a money making organisation, no question but every money maker needs customers to hand over the cash. If you dilute your product, your customers will go elsewhere.

[Red Day]

You have a point about festivals in general taking time to sell but certainly for me, T was more of an annual event I looked forward to as opposed to a festival. Over the last few years it's been stale with a cycle of headliners and a bit gong through the motions feel. I honestly think that last year the regulars, and by that I mean folks who bought a ticket regardless, felt a bit let down with the sub standard karaoke singers that filled the line up and the initial announcement hasn't filled a lot of people with faith. Hope they do listen and get a decent varied line up to win back regulars. It's all very well thinking it's a natural cycle that younger fans will replace those giving up, but what happens if that's plan A, and it doesn't work and you've no back up. Hoping come Feb they have pulled together a strong line up.

[devilman]

You have a point about festivals in general taking time to sell but certainly for me, T was more of an annual event I looked forward to as opposed to a festival. Over the last few years it's been stale with a cycle of headliners and a bit gong through the motions feel. I honestly think that last year the regulars, and by that I mean folks who bought a ticket regardless, felt a bit let down with the sub standard karaoke singers that filled the line up and the initial announcement hasn't filled a lot of people with faith. Hope they do listen and get a decent varied line up to win back regulars. It's all very well thinking it's a natural cycle that younger fans will replace those giving up, but what happens if that's plan A, and it doesn't work and you've no back up. Hoping come Feb they have pulled together a strong line up.

[Red Day]

Sums it up well mate. I believe Geoff and those at T need to think about where they're going with this. I'm not in the demographic they aim for and accept that but better selling 15 tickets to me and my mates than having unsold tickets on the day of the festival. And you can probably multiply various like minded oldies up and down the country.

[gazza_20]

I understand what you are saying but it's very rare for there to be a scramble to get tickets for any festival nowadays. It's a sad fact but that just seems to be the way it is now. It's weird, but I actually miss the days of worrying if you were going to be lucky enough to get a ticket at 9am when they came out.

[gazza_20]

The headliners don't excite most of my group and after us shelling out this time last year on the roses announcement, and being really dissapointed with the majority of the lineup.we are reserving judgement on a ticket purchase till the line up is announced.

I have however heard the undercard and the subs are very impressive, no details on who but a very high caliber. All to be revealed in February. So it could end up a bit of a scramble for tickets!!

[Chiefski]

I have however heard the undercard and the subs are very impressive, no details on who but a very high caliber. All to be revealed in February. So it could end up a bit of a scramble for tickets!!

[guitarbhoy1888]

The headliners don't excite most of my group and after us shelling out this time last year on the roses announcement, and being really dissapointed with the majority of the lineup.we are reserving judgement on a ticket purchase till the line up is announced.

I have however heard the undercard and the subs are very impressive, no details on who but a very high caliber. All to be revealed in February. So it could end up a bit of a scramble for tickets!!

[blue6field]

Would agree with this, no chance they wouldn't name a few big acts before the main sale, will probably make the difference between people

not buying on the headliners and buying on the overall card

Edited December 12, 2012 by blue6field

[eFestivals]

Neil will maintain that the tickets have been easy to get since 2006 or something but I disagree.

you're only disagreeing with yourself, cos I've never said anything like that.

What I have said is that there's been clearly visible signs since around that time that sales have been slowing down. Things like:-

- the after-festival sale not selling out immediately (like it did at least once), and taking longer and longer each year to sell out, until it stopped selling out all together.

- the demand for the pre-xmas sales visibly slowing over the years.

- it being easier to get tickets in the main sale each year as the years have gone by.

It was clear that demand was lessening (the same things could be seen for R/L & V too), and that if it kept lessening it would stop selling out sooner or later - which is what happened.

But the sales for T held up better than the sales for R/L did - and that's despite Reading having a much more solid 'rock' line-up than T has ever had, while you've been saying that T would still sell out if it stuck to rock and kept away from pop, while the more pop V fest has maintained its sales best of the three.

Yeah, i know ... just as you cannot see that T has always been a pop festival you failed to notice the sales slowing down. But I did, and that's a part of why I'm the one sat here doing what I do and not you.

[devilman]

2 things. I have never maintained that T should be a rock festival or stick to rock. It never has and it never should but it should cater for all and have decent headliners.

At least we've got an admission that T was different out of you now, that's progress I suppose. I have no doubt that ticket sales slowed since the Foos played, that's because they put shite on. I also have no doubt that the downward trend in sales is following a wider pattern in a saturated festival market. The reason that T held up so well and for so long is because of the repeat attendees. They can't be relied upon now and it's going to be interesting. I hope blue6field is right and there is a brilliant undercard. If they are going to announce it please do it before I spend my cash elsewhere! They've got to do something, their Facebook page is like a comedy sketch now. Even if I was the biggest Mumfords and Rhi rhi fan I'd have doubts about going after reading it.

[eFestivals]

2 things. I have never maintained that T should be a rock festival or stick to rock. It never has and it never should but it should cater for all and have decent headliners.

by 'decent' you mean rock.

As I pointed out, of the 'big 3' commercial fests the one that has had its sales hold up best is the one that is most pop sand the one that had its sales fall fastest was the one most rock.

Just as I noticed that fact, I'm sure Geoff has too.

At least we've got an admission that T was different out of you now, that's progress I suppose.

When we've gone round this subject as we have many times, I've always said it has changed with what it's presenting now to what it presented in the past - because the musical fashions have changed.

I have no doubt that ticket sales slowed since the Foos played, that's because they put shite on.

then all of the big three have been putting shite on, and the most shite (as measured by sales) has been the one with the most rock and the least shite the one with the most pure pop.

R/L couldn't even sell out with the Foos last year. Nor with a band you've said would help T sell more tickets.

I also have no doubt that the downward trend in sales is following a wider pattern in a saturated festival market.

while there's more festival options, any saturation is a small part of the drop in sales - because the number of tickets in total for all festival has slumped.

The reason that T held up so well and for so long is because of the repeat attendees.

That goes without saying.

But trying to keep the repeaters won't work as a long term sales strategy, because sooner or later they drift away no matter who you put on. What people want to do changes (do you go on holiday each year to the place where you had your best ever holiday, or do you go somewhere different?), and the demands within their life changes (family, job, financial commitments, etc).

They can't be relied upon now

they could never be relied on, which is why T has never relied on them.

[harryomatic]

I had a very strange dream last night. It was gazza_20's birthday, and he wanted us all to 'infiltrate' the Glastonbury forums to celebrate. He had some handy hints to help us blend in:

1) Pretend you're a massive Stone Roses fan

2) Don't mention Scotland

3) Speak with an English accent

4) Tell everyone you hate Alex Salmond

I have no idea why those would help us seem like regular Glastonbury goers on a forum.

Anyway, somehow this led to us being in a muddy field and slagging off SAAS (the system for student loans system in Scotland for those that don't know) and me using a Yorkshire accent. Neil didn't like this whole infiltration plan we had going on, so he kidnapped one of my fellow university students and chained him up as a punishment to us all.

It was really weird. I'm not going to check eFesivals once I come home from a night out if that's the frame of mind it puts me in.

[eFestivals]

I'm not going to check eFesivals once I come home from a night out if that's the frame of mind it puts me in.

i'd find some milder drugs if I were you.

[blue6field]

i'd find some milder drugs if I were you.

[harryomatic]

Haha, it was just alcohol for me last night. But rather a lot as I finished my exams dor the semester yesterday. I've always had weird, vivid dreams though.

[gazza_20]

I had a very strange dream last night. It was gazza_20's birthday, and he wanted us all to 'infiltrate' the Glastonbury forums to celebrate. He had some handy hints to help us blend in:

1) Pretend you're a massive Stone Roses fan

2) Don't mention Scotland

3) Speak with an English accent

4) Tell everyone you hate Alex Salmond

I have no idea why those would help us seem like regular Glastonbury goers on a forum.

Anyway, somehow this led to us being in a muddy field and slagging off SAAS (the system for student loans system in Scotland for those that don't know) and me using a Yorkshire accent. Neil didn't like this whole infiltration plan we had going on, so he kidnapped one of my fellow university students and chained him up as a punishment to us all.

It was really weird. I'm not going to check eFesivals once I come home from a night out if that's the frame of mind it puts me in.

[devilman]

by 'decent' you mean rock.

[eFestivals]

No I don't. You're a little tinker when it comes to falsely attributing things to people and stereotyping them to fit your own stunted view on things. Decent means decent. The fact that most of the decent musicians around are in the rock genre is neither here nor there. I don't consider Blur, Prodigy, Depeche Mode, Editors, The Cure or even the Boss to be rock but would consider them to be decent headliners. There's plenty out there.

I was using the word there in its broadest sense, to mean the 'rock strand of pop music' - which those acts fall into,

But just to point out why you are not getting them...,

Blur: over 20 years old.

Prodigy: over 20 years old

Depeche Mode: over 20 years old

The Cure: over 20 years old

Bruce the Bland: over 20 years old.

Even editors must be around 10 years old by now, despite doing not a lot in that ten years.

They're not going to sell well to the kids, are they? It's 'dad music'.

And they're not going to sell well to older generations for T in the Park. Those dads (as a whole) will be too busy with their pipes and slippers to spend a weekend in a muddy field.

(yes, I know, that's not strictly true. Blur and Bruce would sell, but Blur because they're one of the few bands who have managed to properly span across to more than just their generation, and Bruce because his fans' hearing has gone ).

I'd pay a fortune to see Elton John actually, why doesn't he do festivals?

cos he's too busy doing his own charity shows.

And we're talking music festivals and not knob-cheese festivals.

Edited December 12, 2012 by eFestivals

[devilman]

And we're talking music festivals and not knob-cheese festivals.

[eFestivals]

We're no longer talking about music festivals though are we? What you are advocating they evolve into is some kind of outside nightclub with guest appearances by "artists" who shout c'mon over a backing track of their songs.

it's what today's kids call music, just as the previously generation called uninspired tunes with monotone singing music too.

All you're succeeding in doing is showing your age and showing that you've yet to realise your age. You sound no different at all to my old man in 1977.

There's plenty of us of all ages that will pay to see proper music for someone to cater to us.

then I suggest you phone up Melvin Benn and tell him where these mythical people are hiding, because R/L has stuck to the sort of line-up you're advocating for T and its sales has slumped far more than the T sales have.

When you consider where I live in the Arctic circle of North Scotland, how come it's as cheap to go to Europe for a festival as it is to go to T?

that's an easy one. It's because morons run the economy (and I don't mean those morons are giving the UK too-high fuel prices, but the opposite).

And, certainly for this year and last, the line ups have been much better.

going by all you're other comments, I'm guessing those aren't the words you meant to type?

get ready for the UK festivals double dip recession collapse. I shit you not, you heard it here first.

You're priceless, you really are.

You're five+ years too late. Those of us with a better eye on the industry than you've got saw it years ago.

[zahidf]

/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3882859">devilman, on 12 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

There's plenty of us of all ages that will pay to see proper music for someone to cater to us.

'then I suggest you phone up Melvin Benn and tell him where these mythical people are hiding, because R/L has stuck to the sort of line-up you're advocating for T and its sales has slumped far more than the T sales have. '

If anything, i see Melvin getting Eminem to headline reading next year as him conceding more towards the T model. I reckon acts like Example and Plan B will be playing Reading soon ( If not next year)

I think if you want 'proper' music, you have to go to a smaller festival, becuase the fans who want to go to watch 'proper music' clearly are getting smaller.

[devilman]

Au contraire (that's a phrase in Belgian isn't it?) I'm going to 2 bigger festivals this year. One definitely will sell out and the other will be not far off. There may be some dance but there'll be mostly proper music and I'll be happy as a pig in shit.

Neil you seem to think not putting up with shite is showing your age. Maybe it is, I'll still be going to festivals and gigs as long as I can stand. And if recent gigs and fests are anything to go by I'll be still pwning the pits too!

[eFestivals]

If anything, i see Melvin getting Eminem to headline reading next year as him conceding more towards the T model. I reckon acts like Example and Plan B will be playing Reading soon ( If not next year)

It certainly looks like Melvin is attempting 'modernise' R/L, tho whether it goes quite that mainstream remains to be seen. I don't think it necessarily will do, because it's got the competition of V on its doorstep, while T has always had a line-up somewhere between what R/L and V have each been doing because it doesn't have that competition.

[eFestivals]

Neil you seem to think not putting up with shite is showing your age.

I'm older than you, and I put up with no shit - which is why I've not been near T for years, while you've loved it and thought it's not shite.

What you've said is absolutely nothing about where I'm coming from. You're perfectly entitled to think that it's shit (in fact, it's meant to make you think it's shit, see below). But quite why you think you're the arbitor of all known good taste, I don't know.

The bands you constantly name are bands of twenty years ago, bands of your youth. If I was to reel off a similar want list, my own idea of what is good, I'd reject much of the shite you champion in favour of bands of my youth. And guess what? Today's kids will think just the same in 20 years about the bands you hate today. That's how it works. That's what fashions are, and generation gaps are.

As I've said several times now over several weeks, you've got old and you've not realised it. You don't 'get' today's music, because it is not music made for you and nor is it music made by people who have had similar life experiences to you because they're around the same age as you. That's precisely how it works.

You can try and hang on to your lost youth all you like, it's gone, and you're no longer that youth. Sooner or later you'll wake up to that, and perhaps succeed in seeing the world more how it really is.

Honestly, why do you think kids* want to listen to dad music? Did you want to listen to everything your dad liked? Or did you want to go on a musical discovery of your own, which has brought you to where you are? Was T serving up a line-up that pleased your dad as much as it pleased you when you first started going?

(* there are of course always exceptions. I'm talking in general)

So it's nothing about "Neil you seem to think not putting up with shite is showing your age" and everything about the fact that you think it's shit is showing your age. You sound just like my dad did in 1977 when he couldn't get modern music.

Edited December 12, 2012 by eFestivals