Rolling Stones...

[Wooderson]

Come to think of it I'd say Shakey's life has been a misery with every fucking company worth their salt making cinnamon flavoured X cajoling him into letting them use that lick.

[The Nal]

Whereas I think yis should be a bit more like General Melchett when he heard that Georgina had died.

But nah, I think music is too important for the "can't be helped" option.

Please carry on and we may get another "On the Beach."

Impossible unfortunately. Once in a lifetime stuff.

New album is fantastic though!

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

Jesus the Take That fans need to have a lie down.

/joke

[Wooderson]

"Hey Neil, thanks for taking my call. This is Bob from Cinnamon Bongwater Inc, have we got the proposition for you?!!"

[The Nal]

Jesus the Take That fans need to have a lie down.

You don't know what it was like for us when Robbie left!

My entire childhood up in smoke.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Nal

[5co77ie]

Sorry to go off topic, but could you give me some tips on what albums to buy to get into Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. I picked up Henry's Dream at a charity shop which I am really into and want more. Was going to get murder ballads but unsure if this is too obvious/commercial. Any advice welcome as I am thoroughly ashamed of my lack of knowledge.

On the Hyde Park thing, I was at Live8 and there was nothing wrong with the sound (apart from you could hear Mariah Carey). Sounds like it's gone downhill since.

Henry's Dream was an 'Americana' high point I think personally. Although I wouldn't go for Murder Ballads, try the older stuff Tender Prey, The Good Son, No More Shall We Part, and my personal favourite The Firstborn Is Dead

Or later albums Dig!! Lazarus Dig!!!, and Abattoir Blues / The Lyre of Orpheus. Plus of course The Best of Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, in fact get all his catalogue you won't regret a single album. If you like them, then there's another band called The Birthday Party...

[The Nal]

TBH, it took me a while to get used to a 27 minute opening track (Down by the river is 8mins long on album - the live version at glasto was around 18 - what's he gonna do live to Driftin' back?), but now I have - yes I agree. It's the best I've heard from him in ages.

Some funny lyrics on it too!

Actually fuck the Stones. Get Neiler back!

[Wooderson]

If sales dwindle to the point where the only way bands have to make a cent (whether they are the Stones - YES BACK ON THREAD! - or BIlly & The Bellix) is to license a song off then I'm cool with that. As mentioned further up thread, as an inveterate record buyer the recent "cashing in" by legacy acts on pishy demos or boxsets of previously released stuff is sickening, unapologetic commercialism.

Zep and Blur's upcoming boxsets for example. Latent profiterring and exploitative. Far more insideous that any banal licensing effect.

[The Nal]

What about the Grateful Deads boxsets chief?

"Sickening"?

P.S. Ive no issue at all with Robbie. Seems a nice lad.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Nal

[5co77ie]

What about the Grateful Deads boxsets chief?

"Sickening"?

P.S. Ive no issue at all with Robbie. Seems a nice lad.

What idiot fan buys those when every single bootleg and studio recording is available for free? Kind of missing the point.

"The Grateful Dead remains as it always has — in favor of tape trading. The internet archive has been a resource that is important to all of us. Between the music, and interviews in the archive we are able to experience the Grateful Dead fully."

"When the music was given away for free to trade, the band was making so much money touring that the music was not as valuable to them," Schiller said. "It's Apple iTunes that has made digital downloads a business."

I only bought the vinyl for the covers maaaannnn!

[Big Vern]

It was one of the most arrogant things I've ever seen posted, and I spend a lot of time on the internet.

I find it upsetting when bands I like, particularly ones I associate with having passion and soul, flog their creations for advertising. Instead of being a moment of genius it'll be remembered as 'the song on the (whatever) advert'.

I know we live in a world where making money is the be all and end all and I'm an anachronism at-funnily enough-35 as I prefer to think there's more to life than that, but that's the way I feel. I constantly marvel at peoples greed. How much money is enough for crying out loud? Makes sense I would be upset when a band with millions in the bank sacrifices the art they poured their heart and soul into and it's place in history for a few quid more.

It's a nuanced argument but I feel let down when bands sell out. There are degrees of disappointment but it's there. I don't expect anyone else to feel the same way but it's genuinely how I feel. It's nothing to do with being 'shallow' FFS.

Wind your neck in it was a point of view! It could be said that you are arrogant for expecting an artist not to do what they want with their own material just because you like it!

You appear to have totally gone off on one without really taking in what I was saying. I was not saying that it is shallow to go off a song or a band/artist because they have sold one of their songs to be used on an advertisement (although personally I would find it hard to be able to suddenly dislike a song I loved because i now occasionally hear it on an advert, but that's just my view). As you will see from my follow up post a page or two back, I said it appears shallow to suddenly dislike a song/artist that you held very dear to your heart, because it was attached to a special moment in your life/loved one/sad time etc as it would appear that you are putting more significance on the advert using the song than the experience it was previously attached to that it made it/them so special to you, in which case that event cannot have really been that momentous for you to suddenly forget about it and place more importance on the advert!

Edited November 2, 2012 by Big Vern

[5co77ie]

...wonder when there'll be a Grateful Dead tune on an advert?

[The Nal]

What idiot fan buys those when every single bootleg and studio recording is available for free? Kind of missing the point.

Errr..........

[5co77ie]

Cheers 5co77ie - I just presumed that someone with so many albums would either have some duds or at least some that were better listened to after you'd got into the band. Personally I'm not a big fan ofgreatest hits albums, unless they contain songs that I really like and can't get anywhere else. Takes them out of context.

I think the greatest hits album had different versions of the songs - like a rarities (I don't actually have it so I'm not sure)

[Wooderson]

What about the Grateful Deads boxsets chief?

"Sickening"?

P.S. Ive no issue at all with Robbie. Seems a nice lad.

Theyre exploitative!!! No question.

But then I did call my an inveterate record buyer! I'll be buying that Blur set on Day 1 chief - its an illness, Ollan. A dreadful illness.

- - -

In all honesty though, that you've picked up on the Dead boxsets that I've bought shows me that in some form you understand where I'm coming from that its profiteering. Maybe you might not agree with my opinion that theyre more offensive that licensing or sponsorship, but an "earner" or the "hard sell" can be off putting no matter what.

Yourself and Tone showed a little naivity (sorry!) in making an exception for a band up/cross-selling/flogging their own stuff.

Seeing the ex Zep boyos behind transatlantic tables selling a DVD? Shite.

Seeing Shakey (yeah I said it) "promoting" his record on twitter of all things. Woeful.

Bands wanna make money chief. People are 100% entitled to criticise Blur for their songs appearing on ads, but no one is untarnished on this. Bills have to be paid after all. No charity in rock n roll.

[5co77ie]

In all honesty though, that you've picked up on the Dead boxsets that I've bought

Wha...? Which ones did you buy? Just cos your record collector - I don't get it? Surely Winterland, Filmore and the rest would never have been released if Jerry was alive - they were always out there for free. Is any Deadhead collector ever going to pay whatever you reckon it may be worth for some old vinyl? It's the old rare MP3s done on booms that are the real collectors pieces. A friend of mine that I've got to know going to Isle Of Wight (he works at the ferry terminal and spotted my T-shirt from miles away) was telling me he has not only recordings of Bickershaw but was also staying in a nearby bar and has recording of The Other Ones playing in there after they'd done their slots at Bickershaw - the way he describes them makes them sound amazing and way more valuable than their repetitive shows at Winterland. Someone else I know has the CD's of their actual visuals used at their shows and plays them at Beautiful Days Festival across the bar tent and over the Bimble Inn and woods late at night - I reckon that's the best recording I've ever seen.

Edited November 2, 2012 by 5co77ie

[The Nal]

Ive no issue with a band releasing anything. Box sets or otherwise. No issue at all. I dont have to buy it.

But Ive no control over ads unfortunately.

Theyre not the same at all. Theres different ways to make money. Promoting and selling your own music is fine. Nothing wrong with that. They are musicians after all!

I dont think Blur, Zeppelin, the Dead releasing their music in any shape or form is exploitative in anyway whatsoever. Its what I want from them. More please!

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

Wha...? Which ones did you buy?

I'm not that bad Scott FFS. Few boxsets.

Theres soon going to be a global vinyl shortage with the re-release of the Beatles stuff on wax. Gimme a break. haha

Just cos your record collector - I don't get it? Surely Winterland, Filmore and the rest would never have been released if Jerry was alive - they were always out there for free.

Who knows. They released a shit tonne of live stuff when he was with us tho...

Is any Deadhead collector ever going to pay whatever you reckon it may be worth for some old vinyl?

I couldnt give a fiddlers. The stuff is for me. I ain't buying as an investment. The Spring '90 set took so long to arrive in Dublin that I downloaded a torrent anyway. Similar to you I like having the artifact. They make a sizeable enough effort with each set to be fair to them.

It's the old rare MP3s done on booms that are the real collectors pieces.

A friend of mine that I've got to know going to Isle Of Wight (he works at the ferry terminal and spotted my T-shirt from miles away) was telling me he has not only recordings of Bickershaw but was also staying in a nearby bar and has recording of The Other Ones playing in there after they'd done their slots at Bickershaw - the way he describes them makes them sound amazing and way more valuable than their repetitive shows at Winterland. Someone else I know has the CD's of their actual visuals used at their shows and plays them at Beautiful Days Festival across the bar tent and over the Bimble Inn and woods late at night - I reckon that's the best recording I've ever seen.

Wow. I'd be interested in checking all that out. Do you reckon theres the slightest chance of someone booking Further for next summer? Can't be too many more years of them touring ahead.

My most listened to stuff from them is prolly the Watkins Glen jam which I've been CANING in recent months. I'm fascinated by it... Besides this I'm a bit of a Betty Board/disco Deadhead tbh chief.

[mrtourette]

To be honest, everyone I know who I would class as being big music fans feels similar to this and I am surprised you've had less support than you have on this forum. Like we've said if it doesn't bother others, then that's fair enough, but it's still surprising.

I knew it would come eventually, the suggestion that if you don't feel the same way then you aren't a music fan. Took a bit longer than I expected though.

As for the "we" (ugh, gang mentality on an internet forum) you mention, what you've accused Vern of doing is no different than people refusing to accept that others aren't affected in the same way. It may be easier to defend and smugly dress it up as being a real music fan or caring more, but essentially both sides have been doing the same thing - assuming that their opinion is standard or right and then getting pissy when people point out that it isn't.

And then to boast and pat each other on the back when you think that by agreeing you've proved each other right and won! Dear Lord.

Edited November 2, 2012 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

Not you alone, but the little gang that formed on page 46 to counter his 'shallow' comment. High fives and group hugs all round.

[mrtourette]

Apologies if that's rude Scruffy, but nothing gets my goat more than those who are on the 'right' side ('proper' Glasto fans, Glasto ethos, music is art, the festival should solve all of society's ills) call out and act like drama queens over those who are on the 'wrong' side (have opposing arguments, don't necessarily think new Glasto is bad, appreciate the business aspect of the current music industry, etc.) when they do exactly the same things that they're whining about themselves.

Edited November 2, 2012 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

both myself and Nal have made a point of not saying that

You sort of did, with the "adverts dilute the song it's just whether that bothers you" and "how can it not?" comments, but I wasn't really thinking of you.

[Gnomicide]

Warning! Post does not contain adverts!

I was driving up the M6 yesterday. Traffic was awful but my journey was made all the better by playing The Brussels Affair at a rather stupid volume.

Fook me, how good is that version of Midnight Rambler?

Anyway, you can carry on now.

Erm.... That one with the song that sound like a rip off of a Joy Formidable song. Now that pisses me off.

[The Nal]

You sort of did, with the "adverts dilute the song it's just whether that bothers you" and "how can it not?" comments, but I wasn't really thinking of you.

How can it dilute the song? When its used on the album. Fine. But when used time and time again on ads etc, by definition, it dilutes the songs original meaning which was intended firstly to be listened to on an album or single.

Definition of dilute - "to lessen the force, strength, purity, or brilliance of, especially by admixture." No joke!

Anyway, good points from both sides of the house on this. Apart from Woodersons Neil Young catfood ad idea! Haha.

And yes, that version of Midnight Rambler is fucking badass. They were on fire around that time.

Sorry for the pedantic definition above. I dont want to appear patronising.

By the way patronising means "to talk down to someone".

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Nal

[mrtourette]

How can it dilute the song? When its used on the album. Fine. But when used time and time again on ads etc, by definition, it dilutes the songs original meaning which was intended firstly to be listened to on an album or single.

Definition of dilute - "to lessen the force, strength, purity, or brilliance of, especially by admixture." No joke!

Anyway, good points from both sides of the house on this. Apart from Woodersons Neil Young catfood ad idea! Haha.

And yes, that version of Midnight Rambler is fucking badass. They were on fire around that time.

Sorry for the pedantic definition above. I dont want to appear patronising.

By the way patronising means "to talk down to someone".

We all know how it can, the question in, er, question was "how can it not?". It doesn't dilute it for everybody.