Rolling Stones...

[The Nal]

We all know how it can, the question in, er, question was "how can it not?". It doesn't dilute it for everybody.

I think it dilutes it. If the dilution spoils it at all is a different thing and a personal one. Which is I think what we're all posting about.

[mrtourette]

That's fair enough, but you have to accept the possibility that for some people it doesn't dilute it, even before you get to the argument as to whether the dilution (not sure of that's a word?) ruins it or not.

[The Nal]

That's fair enough, but you have to accept the possibility that for some people it doesn't dilute it, even before you get to the argument as to whether the dilution (not sure of that's a word?) ruins it or not.

Ill meet you half way. Ill accept the dilution doesnt ruin it for some!

But only if you accept the fact that Im buying you a few whiskeys in June.

[Big Vern]

A mostly well reasoned debate, well done to all involved!

The new Madness album is very good by the way.

[MEGABOWL]

Wind your neck in it was a point of view! It could be said that you are arrogant for expecting an artist not to do what they want with their own material just because you like it!

You appear to have totally gone off on one without really taking in what I was saying. I was not saying that it is shallow to go off a song or a band/artist because they have sold one of their songs to be used on an advertisement (although personally I would find it hard to be able to suddenly dislike a song I loved because i now occasionally hear it on an advert, but that's just my view). As you will see from my follow up post a page or two back, I said it appears shallow to suddenly dislike a song/artist that you held very dear to your heart, because it was attached to a special moment in your life/loved one/sad time etc as it would appear that you are putting more significance on the advert using the song than the experience it was previously attached to that it made it/them so special to you, in which case that event cannot have really been that momentous for you to suddenly forget about it and place more importance on the advert!

I like the way you keep repeating the bit that I described as arrogant.

The artist can do what they want with their music, but I reserve the right to like it less.

You or anyone else can react to music being sold however you want, I reserve the right to do the same.

I'll try this another way. Say you had a bit of music that was associated with e.g. the birth of your child/the death of a loved one/the day you got married/day you got divorced and liked it more because you kept hearing it on an advert and it reminded you of that happy day/made you feel better about that sad day. You know what my response would be? Fair enough, I understand that music means different things to different people and is taken in different ways. I could easily accuse you of being 'shallow' in how much you cared about that music but I wouldn't because that would be crass, condescending and arrogant.

Likewise if I was to say that a bit of music that I'd invested massive value in because it was associated with my happiest times/helped me through my darkest days was now cheapened-to me, not expecting anyone else to feel the same-because of hearing everywhere selling e.g. dog food, I would expect someone else to understand. I certainly wouldn't expect to be told that I cared less about the real life experience than the advert because that would be crass, condescending, and arrogant. If someone used the word 'shallow' I'd laugh in their face.

[Wooderson]

Lot of Take That fans in the hizzouse tonight.

[Big Vern]

I like the way you keep repeating the bit that I described as arrogant.

The artist can do what they want with their music, but I reserve the right to like it less.

You or anyone else can react to music being sold however you want, I reserve the right to do the same.

I'll try this another way. Say you had a bit of music that was associated with e.g. the birth of your child/the death of a loved one/the day you got married/day you got divorced and liked it more because you kept hearing it on an advert and it reminded you of that happy day/made you feel better about that sad day. You know what my response would be? Fair enough, I understand that music means different things to different people and is taken in different ways. I could easily accuse you of being 'shallow' in how much you cared about that music but I wouldn't because that would be crass, condescending and arrogant.

Likewise if I was to say that a bit of music that I'd invested massive value in because it was associated with my happiest times/helped me through my darkest days was now cheapened-to me, not expecting anyone else to feel the same-because of hearing everywhere selling e.g. dog food, I would expect someone else to understand. I certainly wouldn't expect to be told that I cared less about the real life experience than the advert because that would be crass, condescending, and arrogant. If someone used the word 'shallow' I'd laugh in their face.

Sorry, you're quite right. What I should have put is "in my opinion it is shallow".

Not that you're been crass, condescending or arrogant in your retort. It seems that you are saying that I or anybody else can react to music being sold however we want, as long as I don't express an opinion on those with a different opinion to mine.

I certainly wouldn't have been as outraged as you clearly are, life's too short!

Edited November 2, 2012 by Big Vern

[russycarps]

Sorry to go off topic, but could you give me some tips on what albums to buy to get into Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. I picked up Henry's Dream at a charity shop which I am really into and want more. Was going to get murder ballads but unsure if this is too obvious/commercial. Any advice welcome as I am thoroughly ashamed of my lack of knowledge.

On the Hyde Park thing, I was at Live8 and there was nothing wrong with the sound (apart from you could hear Mariah Carey). Sounds like it's gone downhill since.

First thing to say is they really havent done a bad album. All are fantastic I think.

I would suggest the next album you get is Tender Prey. If you like Henrys Dream you will definitely like it, and in my opinion it is their masterpiece.

Murder Ballads is fantastic, you cant go wrong there. If you want a quieter cave album the boatmans call is also ace. No More shall we part and nocturama are both quiet albums too, with NMSWP generally more highly regarded (I like both but prefer other albums over them).

Let Love In is a brilliant album and is often the album I recommend to people who have never heard a cave album before. The lyrics are sensational on that album. Loverman might be my favourite song they've done and it was wonderful at glastonbury 1998 (or was it earlier than that?).

I think you will also like The firstborn is dead and your funeral my trial. They are loud and dark and ace.

The good son is ok. Its the first quieter album they did really and a lot of fans were outraged by it. But I like it. I wouldnt go for that one next though.

Abattoir blues and dig lazarus dig are also good but there are some weaker songs on them - there are better albums to go for.

Oh and the live album Live Seeds is also really really good!

In short I would get next:

Tender Prey

Let Love In

The Boatmans Call/Murder Ballads

but honestly, you cant go wrong as they are all ace!

Oh and nick cave is the greatest front man of all time

[Wooderson]

Nicky was like listening to a headache in 09.

[russycarps]

Nicky was like listening to a headache in 09.

worst crowd of all time that was

[Wooderson]

worst crowd of all time that was

I was a hungover wreck, so I'm no reliable or fair judge. I just didnt get it. Band seemed to enjoy it more than the crowd.

[russycarps]

yeh I think it was the wrong slot for them really. They brought the house down when they headlined latitude that year. I do think they are much more suited to sweaty indoor venues though

[jimmyt]

yeh I think it was the wrong slot for them really. They brought the house down when they headlined latitude that year. I do think they are much more suited to sweaty indoor venues though

Absolutely. As much as I've loved them every time I've seen them (the below-par 2009 showing still being better than almost everything else that year) it's the gigs I've seen them do in London, specifically at Brixton Academy, that stick out. Plus, when you can get close up it makes Nick seem to be enormously tall and even more intimidating which, for ke at least, enhanced the ferocity of the performance and lyrics.

They'd be the best JPT headliner of all time, albeit they're far too big for that. Grinderman would be pretty awesome in there, too.

As for where to start, in this hi-tech music-download world we live in, you can select a few tracks to listen to that will better guide you to the albums you'll enjoy most to begin with. Eventually, of course, you'll love them all but I would suggest trying out "Babe, I'm On Fire" (incredible song and such good value for money!), "Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow", "Into My Arms" (possibly the most beautiful song in the world.......ever!), "Do You Love Me?", "There She Goes, My Beautiful World" and "The Ship Song" because they're some of my favourite songs and also very accessible and, I think, you said you'd got Henry's Dream, which is my favourite album, so I've not included "Brother, My Cup Is Empty" or "Loom Of The Land" or any of the other 7 standout tracks off that album. Mythical-cloud fairy, how I love Henry's Dream!

[Mardy]

He's done so much amazing stuff. I love him to pieces, but yeah, didn't really get the 2009 set.

Anyway, here's some of my favourites, it's a collaborative playlist, so anyone's free to add some more that you like.

Nick Cave

[russycarps]

Absolutely. As much as I've loved them every time I've seen them (the below-par 2009 showing still being better than almost everything else that year) it's the gigs I've seen them do in London, specifically at Brixton Academy, that stick out. Plus, when you can get close up it makes Nick seem to be enormously tall and even more intimidating which, for ke at least, enhanced the ferocity of the performance and lyrics.

They'd be the best JPT headliner of all time, albeit they're far too big for that. Grinderman would be pretty awesome in there, too.

As for where to start, in this hi-tech music-download world we live in, you can select a few tracks to listen to that will better guide you to the albums you'll enjoy most to begin with. Eventually, of course, you'll love them all but I would suggest trying out "Babe, I'm On Fire" (incredible song and such good value for money!), "Fifteen Feet Of Pure White Snow", "Into My Arms" (possibly the most beautiful song in the world.......ever!), "Do You Love Me?", "There She Goes, My Beautiful World" and "The Ship Song" because they're some of my favourite songs and also very accessible and, I think, you said you'd got Henry's Dream, which is my favourite album, so I've not include"Brother, My Cup Is Empty" or "Loom Of The Land" or any of the other 7 standout tracks off that album. Mythical-cloud fairy, how I love Henry's Dream!

I agree with everything you say. I reckon babe you turn me on is the most beautiful song every written though, if only for the lyric

"I put one hand on your round ripe heart

and the other down your little panties"

The women in the crowd go mad when he songs that!

[russycarps]

Cheers Russy - very comprehensive recomendations. Off to check cd-selling websites now

ha reading back my post that is probably the worst album reviews I've ever read! I missed a few of the albums out too, but they are all good really, you cant go wrong!

[Morse Code]

So anyone see the Stones '78 gig in Austin, Texas on Sky Arts last night? Pretty good back then weren't they?

[mike46]

New song -

[The Nal]

Back to the usual faxed in Stones piss there.

[mike46]

Back to the usual faxed in Stones piss there.

Can't agree more, wasn't expecting Doom and Gloom to be anywhere near as good as it was though.

[The Nal]

Can't agree more, wasn't expecting Doom and Gloom to be anywhere near as good as it was though.

Thats the thing. They probably could've written something as good, or close to it. But they thought, "nah fuck it. One decent tune will do. Get the greatest hits out."

[mike46]

Thats the thing. They probably could've written something as good, or close to it. But they thought, "nah fuck it. One decent tune will do. Get the greatest hits out."

I'm surprised they've actually released both of them, was a perfect incentive for people to buy GRRR! having 2 new tracks on.

[Vanderlyle]

Pretty solid hint that they're at least considering it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p010v92j

[GlastoSimon]

I think they're playing a game here. The whole 'will they, won't they' regarding Glastonbury is a massive publicity stunt for me, just look at this thread for crying out loud!

Can see them turning it down at some point next year, not enough money in it.

[1waveydavey]

It almost feels impossible that they won't play Glastonbury somehow. There is just too much chatter around all of this.

Just listened to the R4 program, can't agree with above comment about Jagger coming across like a dick. Richards seems like he wants to spill the beans but he knows the deal this time and he has to keep schtum to keep it all together and make it work.