Football 2013-2014

[thetime]

I'd say that Utd would be massively better off with 5th, for going forwards.

5th would make it reasonably easy to convince good players that a poor season was a one-of, which they'll quickly bounce back from.

Lower than 5th and the better players would fear for their careers by going to Utd. They'll be wanting a better move if they can get it.

[jammy2211]

I think we find out a lot about spurs next month - the next 4 games are City (H), Hull (a), Everton (h) and Newcastle (a) - all teams Liverpool dropped points against and some tricky fixtures. If they could come out with 7 points (including a win over Everton) I'd place them as favourites for top 4, as while they might be trailing a few points they'd really have started to make their way through the toughest fixtures - Liverpool would still have trips to Man U and Southampton, as well as games with City, Everton and Newcastle.

It is fascinating though and Everton don't want to go away - if the new signings click quick then I can see them being favourites (at least on a pure fixture / position analysis) by the end of February - next 4 away games after today are Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle though so I'm sure theres points to be lost.

[eFestivals]

Oh I don't know about that, although I can see what your saying.

Liverpool have still signed quality players and they haven't been in the champions league for years.

which gets to show just how difficult it is to sign good-enough-quality players, surely?

Their best players (Suarez & Sturridge) they've got very lucky with, too. This is what I mean about how much luck Utd will need with any big spend.

If you strip it all down players still want to play for Liverpool and man united.

only if the better teams aren't available to those players - which gets to mean that the players that are buyable aren't the best players.

A team either has to have massive spending and a clear bright future - like City - or the out-of-top-4 buying team has to get lucky with a player in much the way Liverpool did with Suarez .... either he was off-the-radar of the better clubs or the better clubs didn't want him for some reason (I'd guess at his disaplinary, or they simply didn't believe he'd manage to do much the same in the Prem) ... whatever, Utd weren't smart enough to sign him, which gets to show they do bad luck even when in a strong position. The luck will be worse in a weak one!

Edited January 20, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I think we find out a lot about spurs next month

I think we've already found out all we need to know, that their defence is shocking.

[5co77ie]

I think we find out a lot about spurs next month - the next 4 games are City (H), Hull (a), Everton (h) and Newcastle (a) - all teams Liverpool dropped points against and some tricky fixtures. If they could come out with 7 points (including a win over Everton) I'd place them as favourites for top 4, as while they might be trailing a few points they'd really have started to make their way through the toughest fixtures - Liverpool would still have trips to Man U and Southampton, as well as games with City, Everton and Newcastle.

It is fascinating though and Everton don't want to go away - if the new signings click quick then I can see them being favourites (at least on a pure fixture / position analysis) by the end of February - next 4 away games after today are Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle though so I'm sure theres points to be lost.

[thetime]

I think we've already found out all we need to know, that their defence is shocking.

[thetime]

I think Everton's final position will be determined away from home this season, with five tough games I think they will probably lose left (I don't count Newcastle or Man U as tough ) :

Home: Aston Villa, West Ham, Cardiff, Swansea, Arsenal, Soton, Man City

Away: Liverpool, Tottenham, Crystal Palace, Chelsea, Newcastle, Fulham, Sunderland, Man Utd, Hull

[eFestivals]

Is it? Have they got the worst defensive record out of the top 6?

Nope (2nd worst), but they have got the worst goals scored of the top 8.

Nice pop at Liverpool, but goals-scored matters against the goals-conceded stat, it's fairly meaningless for league position just by itself.

[thetime]

Nope (2nd worst), but they have got the worst goals scored of the top 8.

Nice pop at Liverpool, but goals-scored matters against the goals-conceded stat, it's fairly meaningless for league position just by itself.

[pink_triangle]

As you say, they're not playing well.

It's honeymoon period, and they've been easy fixtures. It won't last, particularly once the tactical nativity gets shown up against a decent team.

[pink_triangle]

Still a couple of weeks of the transfer window left, I would expect some sides to look to sort out weaknesses, although it has been very quiet so far. A great (or a lucky) signing could be the big difference when things are so tight.

[eFestivals]

That doesn't mean there defensively shocking though, shocking up front maybe.

And yet they're defensively shocking.

All the same problems are there which allowed Liverpool to tear them apart, and it'll be exposed again the next time they play a half-decent team.

In fact it'll be more exposed, because they're not playing with the same caution they had with AVB. The go-for-it tactics will cost them more than AVB's 'negative' tactics.

[eFestivals]

Still a couple of weeks of the transfer window left, I would expect some sides to look to sort out weaknesses, although it has been very quiet so far. A great (or a lucky) signing could be the big difference when things are so tight.

I'm thinking that Arsenal might well make the biggest signing. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them spend another £40M or so if they get get someone to sell them a top striker for that sort of money.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see some panic buying at Utd too ... I reckon there might be some more good comedy value come from there again.

[thetime]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see some panic buying at Utd too ... I reckon there might be some more good comedy value come from there again.

[eFestivals]

Amazing your team are having a great season getting to 4th, but you are still obsessed with united.

My team? Who's that then? I'm enjoying a fantastic season of great and unpredictable footie from any team that's giving that. Sadly for you, Utd are only doing the unpredictable part.

I'm also enjoying seeing some people waking up to the fact that some things do not come with the guarantee they'd been saying they did do.

[zahidf]

I'm thinking that Arsenal might well make the biggest signing. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them spend another £40M or so if they get get someone to sell them a top striker for that sort of money.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see some panic buying at Utd too ... I reckon there might be some more good comedy value come from there again.

[thetime]

My team? Who's that then?

[5co77ie]

Everton don't play man utd away.

[strummer77]

Amazing your team are having a great season getting to 4th, but you are still obsessed with united.

[thetime]

To be fair United fans have won the league most seasons for the last two decades and almost every song is about Liverpool

[eFestivals]

To be fair United fans have won the league most seasons for the last two decades and almost every song is about Liverpool

And most Utd fans have spent more time this season saying how Liverpool won't get 4th than they've done worrying about how shit their own team is playing.... so even after 20+ years this is one contest Liverpool are still winning.

But Mr thetime needs to get real ... for anyone but a Utd fan this is a hugely enjoyable situation, precisely because people like Mr thetime still can't really see the reality of Utd's situation.

[thetime]

But Mr thetime needs to get real ... for anyone but a Utd fan this is a hugely enjoyable situation, precisely because people like Mr thetime still can't really see the reality of Utd's situation.

[jammy2211]

And yet they're defensively shocking.

All the same problems are there which allowed Liverpool to tear them apart, and it'll be exposed again the next time they play a half-decent team.

In fact it'll be more exposed, because they're not playing with the same caution they had with AVB. The go-for-it tactics will cost them more than AVB's 'negative' tactics.

[pink_triangle]

I disagree that you can rule man utd out. Look at the first half of the season and man utd in terms of points were very competitive with the other sides chasing 4th place. Man Utds problem was that they lost to all those sides chasing 4th place. However they more than held their own against the other 16 teams compared to their rivals. In fact at halfway the points totals against the other 16 teams was by my calculation.

Man Utd 34, Everton 32, Spurs 30, Liverpool 29.

Therefore to me the idea that it is impossible for Man Utd to finish above Liverpool, doesn't really hold up. Man Utd have been more consistent getting results against the poorer sides and Liverpool have been more consistent getting results against the better sides. Luckily for Man Utd there are more poor than good teams in the league and if their consistency against the poorer teams continues they will be in contention. There is a tendancy for big post mortems everytime Man Utd drop points while its forgotten when the other sides do the same.

That's not to say that Man Utd will get the top 4, but in terms of results in the second half of the season they need to do very little than the first half. If they cant get a minimum of 6 points from games against Liverpool, everton and spurs then they probably don't deserve 4th place.

[kaosmark2]

Liverpool have been more consistent getting results against the better sides.