Nick Cave

[CaledonianGonzo]

On 10/20/2024 at 12:58 PM, Nicklord said:

Nick Cave: "I just feel – and I'm no friend of the government of Israel – but I just feel on some level that I find it difficult to come to terms with using my music in order to punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government." 

 

Some people online: "You genocide enthusiast!"

 

But then after Russia invaded Ukraine he cancelled concerts in Moscow, suggesting he absolutely will "punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government" if it suits him.

 

So at very best he's a complete hypocrite on this matter 

[Nicklord]

5 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

But then after Russia invaded Ukraine he cancelled concerts in Moscow, suggesting he absolutely will "punish ordinary people because of the acts of their government" if it suits him.

 

So at very best he's a complete hypocrite on this matter 

He cancelled shows in Ukraine and Russia just as the full on war started. I really think they should've risked their lives and go straight to Kyiv as bombs fall down just so you don't think they're hypocrites 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, Nicklord said:

He cancelled shows in Ukraine and Russia just as the full on war started. I really think they should've risked their lives and go straight to Kyiv as bombs fall down just so you don't think they're hypocrites 

 

I didn't say a thing about Kyiv.  Perfectly understandable to cancel there.

[russycarps]

Western artists can't play in Russia due to having to navigate sanctions. 

 

Israel is not subject to any meaningful sanctions.

 

This is obvious stuff.

[CaledonianGonzo]

16 minutes ago, russycarps said:

Western artists can't play in Russia due to having to navigate sanctions. 

 

Israel is not subject to any meaningful sanctions.

 

This is obvious stuff.

 

No.  Sanctions didn't stop him playing - he opted to boycott 'in light of current events'

[majormajormajor]

On 10/21/2024 at 10:49 AM, majormajormajor said:

 

Eh? Jack the Ripper is a classic 'wall of sound' Bad Seeds live track. They'd probably end up opening with Bright Horses or something.

 

They should make festival sets 'bangers night'. Something like:

 

Jubilee Street

Hiding All Away

From Her to Eternity

Tupelo

Papa Won't Leave You Henry

Jack the Ripper

Midnight Man

Mercy Seat

Higgs Boson Blues

Red Right Hand

Do You Love Me?

Weeping Song

Stagger Lee

/edit

 

Encore:

No Pussy Blues

[4AssedMonkey]

1 hour ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

No.  Sanctions didn't stop him playing - he opted to boycott 'in light of current events'

Yeah. But when “recent events” are missile & drone strikes and a full ground invasion by a world superpower, I’d f**king cancel in a heartbeat.

[Superscally]

13 hours ago, MichaelsBeard said:

Selling a standing ticket for Leeds if anyone wants first dibs before I stick it on Twickets 

How much chief?

[Superscally]

1 hour ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

No.  Sanctions didn't stop him playing - he opted to boycott 'in light of current events'

I imagine visas weren't exactly easy to come by, either. 

[russycarps]

So that's:

 

Sanctions

Visa issues

Westerners getting thrown in prison on jumped up charges

War

Western airlines banned from Russian air space.

 

But he is scum for not playing gigs there. 

 

Come on now.... 

 

 

[homesick]

2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

No.  Sanctions didn't stop him playing - he opted to boycott 'in light of current events'

Cry, cry, cry

[CaledonianGonzo]

52 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I imagine visas weren't exactly easy to come by, either. 

 

12 minutes ago, russycarps said:

So that's:

 

Sanctions

Visa issues

Westerners getting thrown in prison on jumped up charges

War

Western airlines banned from Russian air space.

 

But he is scum for not playing gigs there. 

 

Come on now.... 

 

 

 

Now you're just making things up.

 

Someone called him on it in a Red Hand Files here: https://www.theredhandfiles.com/a-few-days-ago/ and you can read his justification for why he thinks all boycotts are wrong except for some boycotts.  Personally I think it's weak AF - his point about complexity is lazy and recycled ad nauseum by apartheid apologists - and assume if he'd been able to he'd have also played Sun City for a fat bag.

 

All of which is just on example of the broader point - that in 2025, the Cavester - with his Unherd interviews, his fondness for Andrew Sullivan and his boomer views on political correctness and cancel culture - is hardly edgy and he approaches things with the countercultural edge and outsider's perspective of a Mail reader.

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

 

Now you're just making things up.

 

Someone called him on it in a Red Hand Files here: https://www.theredhandfiles.com/a-few-days-ago/ and you can read his justification for why he thinks all boycotts are wrong except for some boycotts.  Personally I think it's weak AF - his point about complexity is lazy and recycled ad nauseum by apartheid apologists - and assume if he'd been able to he'd have also played Sun City for a fat bag.

 

All of which is just on example of the broader point - that in 2025, the Cavester - with his Unherd interviews, his fondness for Andrew Sullivan and his boomer views on political correctness and cancel culture - is hardly edgy and he approaches things with the countercultural edge and outsider's perspective of a Mail reader.

 

Did you read Faith, Hope & Carnage? Cave talks more about his idea of conservatism in there, as well as why he deems cancel culture to be bad. He certainly does not have the stereotype boomer views that you are accusing him of having. God forbid somebody doesn't go along with the current political flavor of the day that gets parroted by The Guardian or Pitchfork.

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

Also, Cave isn't playing Israel on the current Wild God tour. Which I'd say is comparable to him skipping Moscow in 2022.

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot

[CaledonianGonzo]

8 minutes ago, SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot said:

 

Did you read Faith, Hope & Carnage? Cave talks more about his idea of conservatism in there, as well as why he deems cancel culture to be bad. He certainly does not have the stereotype boomer views that you are accusing him of having. God forbid somebody doesn't go along with whatever the current political flavor of the day is.

 

 

 

 

I've not read it.  I know he's a thoughtful, nuanced individual and am sure he's arrived at his position after some careful consideration.  Sometimes it's just fun to poke back at the folk sneering at Olivia Rodrigo asnif it all isn't just pop music at the end of the day.

 

7 minutes ago, SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot said:

Also, Cave isn't playing Israel on the current Wild God tour. Which I'd say is comparable to him skipping Moscow in 2022.

 

 

 

 

Based on a recent-ish back and forth I caught a glimpse of with Roger Waters I suspect it's not due to a change of heart - though I agree with him calling Waters a clown.

[Superscally]

2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

 

Now you're just making things up.

 

Someone called him on it in a Red Hand Files here: https://www.theredhandfiles.com/a-few-days-ago/ and you can read his justification for why he thinks all boycotts are wrong except for some boycotts.  Personally I think it's weak AF - his point about complexity is lazy and recycled ad nauseum by apartheid apologists - and assume if he'd been able to he'd have also played Sun City for a fat bag.

 

All of which is just on example of the broader point - that in 2025, the Cavester - with his Unherd interviews, his fondness for Andrew Sullivan and his boomer views on political correctness and cancel culture - is hardly edgy and he approaches things with the countercultural edge and outsider's perspective of a Mail reader.

He said he would play in Russia but he couldn't. So why are you saying we're making things up? You said he chose not to play Russia. Clearly not true. Visas are impossible to get pretty much. How do I know? I tried to get one last year.

[Mardy]

5 minutes ago, Superscally said:

He said he would play in Russia but he couldn't. So why are you saying we're making things up? You said he chose not to play Russia. Clearly not true. Visas are impossible to get pretty much. How do I know? I tried to get one last year.

 

If we're doing anecdotal, several of my friends got visas last year. Was it a work or tourist visa you were trying to get?

 

The coup of publicity to get a western artist the stature of Nick Cave to play would be huge, can't imagine he'd get turned down. Economically, it wouldn't be worth his while, which is a whole different matter.

[CaledonianGonzo]

13 minutes ago, Superscally said:

He said he would play in Russia but he couldn't. So why are you saying we're making things up? You said he chose not to play Russia. Clearly not true. Visas are impossible to get pretty much. How do I know? I tried to get one last year.

 

If he intended to play Russia regardless of the invasion and couldn't cause of visa issues I'd expect he'd have mentioned it when being called out for double standards on Israel.  It'd make him look a lot more consistent.

 

Furthermore, I can't think of an earthly reason why the Russian government wouldn't roll out the red carpet for him in an attempt to normalise themselves as much as possible.  It would be in their interest for the Bad Seeds to act like nothing was wrong and play their gigs as planned.

 

(Edit:  point also made by Mardy)

 

https://www.iq-mag.net/2024/08/more-than-100-international-acts-return-to-russia/

 

Either way, him deciding not to play there was the right call. 

Edited 1 hour ago by CaledonianGonzo

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

16 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I've not read it.  I know he's a thoughtful, nuanced individual and am sure he's arrived at his position after some careful consideration.  Sometimes it's just fun to poke back at the folk sneering at Olivia Rodrigo asnif it all isn't just pop music at the end of the day.

 

 

I've seen Olivia Rodrigo perform, fun live act. But to compare her to Cave and say it's all just pop music... well, it's not. I'll gladly make the argument that Cave operates at a much higher artistic level. Though obviously Cave had a 40+ year head start, so why even put them against each other.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot said:

 

I've seen Olivia Rodrigo perform, fun live act. But to compare her to Cave and say it's all just pop music... well, it's not. I'll gladly make the argument that Cave operates at a much higher artistic level. Though obviously Cave had a 40+ year head start, so why even put them against each other.

 

This started off in response to a post that did, so ask russ.

 

I like them both too.  Room for both of them on the Pyramid. 

[Superscally]

15 minutes ago, Mardy said:

 

If we're doing anecdotal, several of my friends got visas last year. Was it a work or tourist visa you were trying to get?

A long story...which might have been the reason I got some pushback, but to be fair I was tentatively floating the idea and didn't push through. Would be interested to see what hoops they had to jump through or not.

 

As regards Nick, I disagree over the simplicity of that... 🙃

[Superscally]

24 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

If he intended to play Russia regardless of the invasion and couldn't cause of visa issues I'd expect he'd have mentioned it when being called out for double standards on Israel.  It'd make him look a lot more consistent.

 

Furthermore, I can't think of an earthly reason why the Russian government wouldn't roll out the red carpet for him in an attempt to normalise themselves as much as possible.  It would be in their interest for the Bad Seeds to act like nothing was wrong and play their gigs as planned.

 

(Edit:  point also made by Mardy)

 

https://www.iq-mag.net/2024/08/more-than-100-international-acts-return-to-russia/

 

Either way, him deciding not to play there was the right call. 

He said he couldn't, right there in that article? 😄

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, Superscally said:

He said he couldn't, right there in that article? 😄

 

No he doesn't.  He says if he could only play for Russians that didn't support the invasion he would.  Different thing, and again implies it was a choice he made.

[Mardy]

7 minutes ago, Superscally said:

A long story...which might have been the reason I got some pushback, but to be fair I was tentatively floating the idea and didn't push through. Would be interested to see what hoops they had to jump through or not.

 

As regards Nick, I disagree over the simplicity of that... 🙃

 

Having lived there for 17 years through a wide variety of methods, including work visa, HQS visa, diplomatic visa, temporary residency etc, I've got some knowledge of the logistics  involved in getting the paperwork done to get there.

 

If, when all this sh*t  is over, you still want to go, give me a shout and I can probably give you some pointers.