Nick Cave

[4AssedMonkey]

On 10/13/2024 at 11:15 PM, russycarps said:

 

I agree (the national looked great on the telly last year), but I really thought this time was different. 

 

Nick Cave is massively famous these days and hugely critically acclaimed. This album is much more accessible than his past few, his songs are played in lots of popular telly series and films, he's selling out big venues.... I thought all the pieces had fallen into place. 

 

But it seems not. 

 

Not that it's any of my business really. 

 

 

 

 

Hey Russy.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you on the pedigree or talent of the man, he's never going to top the pointed one.  He's just too divisive.  The chair and blanket brigade would be furious and may even leave the field!  For those punters - and Aunty Beeb - they need that field to be big names, singalong pop stuff and generic crowd pleasers.  Nick Cave in any guise just doesn't fit with that.

[majormajormajor]

1 hour ago, Nicklord said:

I was watching videos from some previous shows today. Didn't want to spoil myself before except the setlist.

 

It seems they are trying different arrangements for some songs every few gigs. Final Rescue Attempt especially, sounded like 3 different songs so far. Into My Arms as well even.

 

Different arrangements of Into My Arms? Really?

[Nicklord]

Just now, majormajormajor said:

 

Different arrangements of Into My Arms? Really?

 

Sometimes they played it with a band (really just some light bass and drums) and sometimes it was just Nick alone on the stage with a piano. Not a huge change, mostly wanted to say it seems they didn't decide everything yet

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, 4AssedMonkey said:

 

Hey Russy.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you on the pedigree or talent of the man, he's never going to top the pointed one.  He's just too divisive.  The chair and blanket brigade would be furious and may even leave the field!  For those punters - and Aunty Beeb - they need that field to be big names, singalong pop stuff and generic crowd pleasers.  Nick Cave in any guise just doesn't fit with that.

See, I tend to agree...then every time I see them, I walk away thinking, surely anyone that was undecided but gave them a chance and watched that performance would be blown away. Don't necessarily think they are that much more divisive than some other headliners like Arcade Fire, Metallica, Gorillaz (ok, they stepped up last minute), even Radiohead at times (I absolutely loved their 2017 performance, but many of my mates that would claim to be Radiohead fans were unimpressed...guess they just wanted a repeat of 1997 or 2003!). There's a large contingent that reckon the last half hour/45 mins of The Cure was the only good bit (they're wrong, but they exist!). There's always been pop on the pyramid and yes the festival has moved a bit into promoting it to the top of the bill, but to suggest that only pop/generic acts can now headline is probably a stretch (I know this isn't what you are saying, and wholly agree that it wouldn't be a Stones/Stevie/Elton-sized crowd with many choosing to go elsewhere). But, I genuinely think there's room for all genres atop the big one. Don't put them on Sunday night and I believe they could actually pull it off and surprise many of the doubters. Who are the other options if looking for an established "alternative" act to top the bill and diversify the trio a bit?  Many of those that might fit the profile have done it recently, so why not a new bill topper and a critically acclaimed one at that? Given some of the acts wholeheartedly mentioned as pyramid headline-worthy on here, I'm going to come off the fence and say NC&TBS should headline. Feck it, they'd be immense. 

[4AssedMonkey]

2 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

See, I tend to agree...then every time I see them, I walk away thinking, surely anyone that was undecided but gave them a chance and watched that performance would be blown away. Don't necessarily think they are that much more divisive than some other headliners like Arcade Fire, Metallica, Gorillaz (ok, they stepped up last minute), even Radiohead at times (I absolutely loved their 2017 performance, but many of my mates that would claim to be Radiohead fans were unimpressed...guess they just wanted a repeat of 1997 or 2003!). There's a large contingent that reckon the last half hour/45 mins of The Cure was the only good bit (they're wrong, but they exist!). There's always been pop on the pyramid and yes the festival has moved a bit into promoting it to the top of the bill, but to suggest that only pop/generic acts can now headline is probably a stretch (I know this isn't what you are saying, and wholly agree that it wouldn't be a Stones/Stevie/Elton-sized crowd with many choosing to go elsewhere). But, I genuinely think there's room for all genres atop the big one. Don't put them on Sunday night and I believe they could actually pull it off and surprise many of the doubters. Who are the other options if looking for an established "alternative" act to top the bill and diversify the trio a bit?  Many of those that might fit the profile have done it recently, so why not a new bill topper and a critically acclaimed one at that? Given some of the acts wholeheartedly mentioned as pyramid headline-worthy on here, I'm going to come off the fence and say NC&TBS should headline. Feck it, they'd be immense. 

 

I think the main issue as I see it is that the doubters wouldn't even give it a chance.  It would be roundly derided by your average punter in the run up, who would then ignore it altogether on the day.  Glastonbury I think would see this coming and wouldn't let that happen.  It would be like SZA - "small" crowd of die hard fans and no-one else.  Maybe not SZA small but nowhere near filling the field.

 

I'm an old man and huge music fan all my life.  I have a Glasto "family" of almost 50 people, my wife/kids all love music.  My Brother does.  I've other friends and few colleagues who are avid gig goers.  In discussions about artists, few split the crowd like Nick Cave and if I'm honest, the lovers are outnumbered by the haters and there is no in-between.  To use a worn out vernacular, he's like Marmite.  If my circle is anything to go by, then 75%-80% dislike his output/voice/attitude/whatever.  That's why he would never get the nod to do it.

[NorthernSoul52]

The only way, sadly, Cave might get it is if the headliner above him in a Pyramid sub slot bailed the week of and it was not a Sunday. Then, the festival might gamble. If it was a Sunday, they would pull out all the stops to find someone with more pull.

[Superscally]

5 minutes ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

The only way, sadly, Cave might get it is if the headliner above him in a Pyramid sub slot bailed the week of and it was not a Sunday. Then, the festival might gamble. If it was a Sunday, they would pull out all the stops to find someone with more pull.

I'd say Sunday was the most likely day tbf. See: Cure, Richard Ashcroft, Kasabian, SZA

[NorthernSoul52]

Think SZA should be persuading them more to have a bangers line-up after the Legends Slot. Cave doesn't fit that bill for me.

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, 4AssedMonkey said:

 

I think the main issue as I see it is that the doubters wouldn't even give it a chance.  It would be roundly derided by your average punter in the run up, who would then ignore it altogether on the day.  Glastonbury I think would see this coming and wouldn't let that happen.  It would be like SZA - "small" crowd of die hard fans and no-one else.  Maybe not SZA small but nowhere near filling the field.

 

I'm an old man and huge music fan all my life.  I have a Glasto "family" of almost 50 people, my wife/kids all love music.  My Brother does.  I've other friends and few colleagues who are avid gig goers.  In discussions about artists, few split the crowd like Nick Cave and if I'm honest, the lovers are outnumbered by the haters and there is no in-between.  To use a worn out vernacular, he's like Marmite.  If my circle is anything to go by, then 75%-80% dislike his output/voice/attitude/whatever.  That's why he would never get the nod to do it.

Oddly enough, in my extended group, Cave and the band are the one of the only acts that would actually get 100% attending! (about 20 of us will see them in Dublin in a few weeks, all part of our wider Glasto group), in fact, most of the time the majority of the group I go with don't see Pyramid headliners at all.  But I get your point. They have had some crossover songs though, most of which are in the current setlist and at least a handful of more widely known tracks is among the criteria for a headliner. I'm resigned to the fact it'll likely never happen, would just prefer a longer set than another pyramid sub one (if I get a ticket!). Think they could easily match the Arcade Fire/Metallica crowd though. 

[russycarps]

If they opened with jubilee Street they'd keep the crowd.

 

But you know they'd open with something like Loverman or Jack the ripper just to be bloody minded...

[Superscally]

If only Kylie was due a shot at the Legend spot...

[Toilet Duck]

4 hours ago, russycarps said:

If they opened with jubilee Street they'd keep the crowd.

 

But you know they'd open with something like Loverman or Jack the ripper just to be bloody minded...

It’s something else live alright…I’m still a fan of the Get ready for love/There she goes, my beautiful world double whammy opening though!

[northernangel]

17 hours ago, Superscally said:

I'd say Sunday was the most likely day tbf. See: Cure, Richard Ashcroft, Kasabian, SZA

We're not actually suggesting Nick Cave could headline are we?, and on a Sunday of all things.

 

Richard Ashcroft didn't headline Glastonbury, The Verve did as a band who are hugely bigger with more famous songs than Cave will ever have on a broader scale. SZA was a point blank mistake and they aren't going to make that again. The Cure and Kasabian at their time sold way more tickets in England than Nick Cave ever has or will. The Cure havss huge following, still shouldn't have been the Sunday pick mind but I imagine many Sunday locals coming would still have known them.

[Superscally]

2 hours ago, northernangel said:

We're not actually suggesting Nick Cave could headline are we?, and on a Sunday of all things.

 

Richard Ashcroft didn't headline Glastonbury, The Verve did as a band who are hugely bigger with more famous songs than Cave will ever have on a broader scale. SZA was a point blank mistake and they aren't going to make that again. The Cure and Kasabian at their time sold way more tickets in England than Nick Cave ever has or will. The Cure havss huge following, still shouldn't have been the Sunday pick mind but I imagine many Sunday locals coming would still have known them.

The Verve were met with a shrug; SZA shows the festival can take a gamble; Kasabian were, are and always will be shite and the Cure put on one of the greatest sets of all time.

 

The whole Sunday huge thing for locals has been proven time and time again to be bollocks. If anything, the Saturday slot has carried the most prestige. I don't think Nick Cave will headline without the festival taking a punt, but they've been shown to do that in the past and though I think they'd only headline if first choices didn't materialise, they would put on a better show than all of them, with the exception of the Cure, who put in a top 10 all-timer. They'd be close though. They would also pull a crowd as big as Metallica and Arcade Fire..

 

[northernangel]

10 minutes ago, Superscally said:

The Verve were met with a shrug; SZA shows the festival can take a gamble; Kasabian were, are and always will be shite and the Cure put on one of the greatest sets of all time.

 

The whole Sunday huge thing for locals has been proven time and time again to be bollocks. If anything, the Saturday slot has carried the most prestige. I don't think Nick Cave will headline without the festival taking a punt, but they've been shown to do that in the past and though I think they'd only headline if first choices didn't materialise, they would put on a better show than all of them, with the exception of the Cure, who put in a top 10 all-timer. They'd be close though. They would also pull a crowd as big as Metallica and Arcade Fire..

 

For all the bands you call shite, I think Nick Cave is shite too. And shite of not, Kasabian was great and Tom nailed it. The Verve didn't pull a small crowd though did they.

 

Metallica crowd was quite pants to be honest for a band their size. I left it being quite close and it was one of the easiest being that close I've ever got out of. Muse last time mind was super easy to get out of, but they were super sh*t by then and I was further back.

[NorthernSoul52]

Cave won't do it a month of Sundays.

 

But that doesn't mean we can't speculate, pontificate and dream.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Laughing at the idea he does headline and then pisses off everyone anyway by doing his deeply mid new one in full.

[NorthernSoul52]

Probably would to be fair.

[Superscally]

1 hour ago, northernangel said:

For all the bands you call shite, I think Nick Cave is shite too. And shite of not, Kasabian was great and Tom nailed it. The Verve didn't pull a small crowd though did they.

 

Metallica crowd was quite pants to be honest for a band their size. I left it being quite close and it was one of the easiest being that close I've ever got out of. Muse last time mind was super easy to get out of, but they were super sh*t by then and I was further back.

The difference is, the critics agree with me on both Cave being good amd Kasabian being average at best.

Verve had a very thin crowd, I don't know where you got the idea they had a big one from. It was a straight line walk to the toilets. Kasabian were crap and we all know that Tom is a waster. By nailing it, I can only presume you mean remembering the words. He's a pub shouter (and a violent scumbag) and I could find 20 people in town tonight that would do a better job, as evidenced by Serge doing a way better job.

Edited October 19 by Superscally

[NorthernSoul52]

Kasabian on the box was pretty bland. Cave the year prior, subbing, was surprisingly impressive in terms of what I anticipated from a crowd - again, on the box.

 

There's a reason we don't look back and remember Kasabian as being one of the great headliners, but we do look back at the Bad Seeds as being one of the great subs, I'd argue.

[northernangel]

1 hour ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

Kasabian on the box was pretty bland. Cave the year prior, subbing, was surprisingly impressive in terms of what I anticipated from a crowd - again, on the box.

 

There's a reason we don't look back and remember Kasabian as being one of the great headliners, but we do look back at the Bad Seeds as being one of the great subs, I'd argue.

I enjoyed Kasabian loads, the bad seeds I just find very bland, probably the last option I'd want to take any slot.

[DomDom1984]

I always thought Jubilee Street would be a great way to close a show.

 

From Her to Eternity would be a great opener for me.

[NorthernSoul52]

2 hours ago, northernangel said:

The bad seeds I just find very bland, probably the last option I'd want to take any slot.

Then what are you doing in the Nick Cave chat, fella? 😁

[russycarps]

Of course the people in this thread saying how unsuitable Nick is as headliner are the very same people championing the bubblegum pop acts to headline on the headliners thread.

 

Good to see the whopper quotient on this forum remains high!

 

 

Edited October 19 by russycarps

[emmanuel]

Nick Cave would obviously be a much better headliner than whatever generic rock band the festival has offered such as Arcade Fire, Arctic Monkeys, Guns'n'Roses or Kasabian. I won't compare with pop artists since it is really not the same thing.

But that's fine, not every festival has a bit of edge, and it is easy to see Nick Cave elsewhere.